Loud, obnoxious, dogmatic, purist, judgmental, unnuanced, and unaccepting of views different than theirs (aka: intolerant). These are the Bitcoin bigots of the movement.
Change my mind.
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Loud, obnoxious, dogmatic, purist, judgmental, unnuanced, and unaccepting of views different than theirs (aka: intolerant). These are the Bitcoin bigots of the movement.
Change my mind.
Why would I bother trying to change the mind of someone who doesn't look at the facts? I've already showed you the verifiable failures of custodians that can only be solved by self-custody, and your response was that it was a point of view not built on adequate grounds.
Actually, you weren't even nuanced about it. You just kept parroting "dogma dogma dogma" over and over again. I was the one who had to break everything down.
Ugh, you again.
"Ugh, the guy who doesn't just repeat one liners from influencers"
🤡🤡🤡
You're the one wearing the makeup
https://imgprxy.stacker.news/-xijkivZDFTrSymICp6lLQu89YuZ2OBo_aFTLiPsbac/rs:fit:600:500:0/g:no/aHR0cHM6Ly9haHNlZWl0LmNvbS8va2luZy1pbmNsdWRlL3VwbG9hZHMvMjAyMS8wNi9jaGdxbWx6LTU5MjE2NjI3MjUuanBn
lolz, that's just funny I don't care how you are
I find this argument boring now.
Fair. But I would love to hear why you might think my point is wrong (assuming you do).
How are these people any different than, say, intolerant judgmental vegans? Or militant atheists? Regardless of the merits of the arguments for/against custody/non-custody wallets, I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in the inability to accept a view different than their when it comes to custody/non-custody wallets.
what does it matter though?
Because I've literally seen people who would otherwise be on the path to orange-pilling get completely turned off by the fervent rhetoric and move on. It's damaging to the movement.
"the movement"
i don't know how good the movement is for bitcoin. "movements" have many types, and if someone generalizes a technology or culture by just a few examples, that sounds like a personality problem I wouldn't want around me anyway. Of course, I'm not a raving maxi, but I am a maxi.
Valid point. Everyone learns at their own pace, in their own way. That said, if someone peers behind the curtain and sees nothing but frantic "oMG yOuR gOnNa GeT rUgGeD" it'll only further delay their willingness to get involved in any shape.
For this reason, I'm a proponent of using a light touch and investing in people for the long-term orange-pill path. You can't overload them, it'll turn them off. You've got to get them started, and carefully, cautiously, drop hints: "Hey, are you on self-custody yet? No worries, let me know when you're ready." "Hey don't forget, that wallet I got you started on, that's technically not your coin. Let me know when you want to switch over to self-custody." etc. etc.
So when I see the shaming and the hyperbolic rhetoric against using a custody wallet, even just temporarily, or even for very small amounts, it frustrates me.
feel free to interject and provide a less toxic narrative for them.
Trying, believe me. Fighting two fronts: what you just mentioned and calling out the dogma within the community. Appreciate your input.
Your premise is bizarre. Obviously the term dogmatic comes from religion, but you choose to only ascribe it to secular views.
Also, I don't know what internet you're on, but the most "Loud, obnoxious, dogmatic, purist, judgmental, unnuanced, and unaccepting of views different than theirs (aka: intolerant)" people I see with respect to diet are the anti-vegan posters. I've never come across a single pro-vegan post, during the course of normal browsing.
Well, as an ex-vegan so I have a unique view that extends back quite a ways. We're all in our various and respective information silos online. Perhaps these days it's less prominent, and I may be applying my memory of the past to the present.
I also don't want to name-drop the particular accounts I've seen taking such extreme views re; custody wallets for newcomers. Apologies for the vagueness there, but it's intentional.
"custody wallets for newcomers" is not even the conversation you wanted to have. You couldn't even move past the very basic breakdowns of this argument to even get to "but what about newcomers".
I can address that though. Its like I said to your first comment back then, custody does not equal good UX. I started my family off on Pheonix wallet with no problems. I got my girlfriend using breez with no instructions of my own, only the UX of https://lightsats.com/
As you pointed out in another comment, after you get a newbie on a custodial wallet, you have to come back over and over "hey, its time for self-custody now. Its time to learn more now". People don't want to give up something they think works and have no understanding of the risks thereof. You're just spending more time and effort when you can totally and completely skip this step with good UX self-custody wallets.
I disagree. It's not about moving away from the custodial wallet, it's about adding additional layers. In my experience, the seed phrase as a huge barrier for most newbies. Yeah they'll go through the motions, write down the seed, but they haven't a clue what, why, nor the magnitude of the responsibility they're endeavoring. For these reasons, they WILL screw it up.
UX stands for user experience, no? If yes, a custody is in fact a better 'X'perience for a newcomer. So I disagree with you there as well.
You actually never asked how I felt on the matter re: non-custody wallets. I'm actually very much for self-custody. I just believe there is a place for custody wallets... allow me explain:
I see it as a three-tiered system: the vault, the safe, and the wallet. The wallet being a custody wallet: for ease of use, especially onboarding a newcomer. That's where you start them and get them hooked. And again, make them fully aware never to use it for storing anything more than what they're willing to lose. Then you 'step up the ladder' so to speak to the safe when they're ready an aware of the importance of the seed phrase: a simple hw used to store a 'medium' amount (whatever that means for them). Once they're thoroughly orange-pilled and ready to invest an inordinate amount, now we move them up to the vault: air-gapped coldcard multisig, etc.
I hope this helps clarify. Have a great day!