214 sats \ 10 replies \ @nullcount 11 Jul 2023 \ on: I am not a routing node anymore bitcoin
90% of wannabe routers are just playing a PvP MMO where they steal from each other while pretending they're all helping Bitcoin together.
On a long enough timeline, unfit nodes either give up or become profitable/useful.
The best routers are also merchant/service nodes and routing profit is just byproduct of having a large active node that people want to pay (for goods and services).
This is how it ought to be! Nodes specialized in routing alone are just trying to be middlemen/rent seekers.
Can you elaborate in more detail on what you mean by "stealing" from each other.
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Stealing implies non-consent. What OP did was presumably with consent because he decided what to charge for routes on his channels and he approved every spend that incurred fees. So was it actually stealing? Not really, but the outcome is the same, OP has fewer sats and nothing to show for it other than experience. Many node setups don't require a human to approve every step so these are especially vulnerable to wallet draining "attacks". But the operator presumably consented to running the automation in the first place.
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Ok, thanks for explaining what you meant. I really think we hurt ourselves and dilute the impact of words like steal when we use them incorrectly. To turn it around, how does a node op using a low fee node to re-balance know WHY the node operator has a 1 sat fee set? It is easy to imply malice in others and virtue in ourselves. Its really foolish. Neither node operator can read the other's mind. If you offer anything a price below cost people will take it from you. Its a great deal! We all like to save money but when we are on the other end we don't like it that much.
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Fo sho, Like if I push a button and I get a sat, I'll keep pressing the button. Then someone proves to me that I'm actually taking sats from their node and they do not consent to me "stealing". I'm a good guy so I stop pressing the button, but really they should harden their node so the button can't "steal" in the first place.
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Yeah stealing is not the right word but screwing other nodes over to balance their own liquidity (splicing improves this by the way)
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Ok, how are people being screwed? Not following what is being done to who or how. If a pleb node operator has low fee rates / fees set and another node(bad guy node) is re-balancing using a channel with this pleb how is this screwing or stealing? I'm not saying it is or isn't but I don't get what is being said here.
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I mean its all within the rules so how are they being screwed right? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
People feel as though they are being screwed by it because they charge the same fee regardless of how much liquidity gets used up. A fee that scales to how much liquidity is being used up would make them feel much less screwed over.
Basically, they're expecting to get many fees over many lightning network transactions, but they end up only charging that 1 fee for their entire channel size and it frustrates them lmao.
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I would recommend folks go into running a lightning node with the learning mindset not the earning mindset. Adjust your time preference my friends. I do get the frustration though if you go into it thinking this is a way to make easy bitcoin and support lightning. In my experience it is not easy but I'm still learning. Learning is rarely without a cost and IMHO learning more about bitcoin and the tools around it are more undervalued than bitcoin itself.
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I see a profit opportunity right now lmao. Pop into the lightning network with a node that has a splicing implementation, let people rebalance through your node and splice in more liquidity. I believe LND was more concerned with creating "Taproot Assets" than they were improving their implementation, so you can probably profit off of LND users in this way.
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Perfect. I also had a romanticized idea that each person would have their lightning node routing thousands, if not millions of transactions per month. However, this works neither in a small environment nor in a hyperbitcoinized environment.
The number of hops between sender and receiver determines the efficiency and effectiveness of the network. The smaller it is, the better. That's why we will have giant nodes, conglomerates of connections, and small nodes with few connections to these conglomerates. Only then will the network remain stable and active.
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