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253 sats \ 14 replies \ @nullcount 29 Jun 2023 \ on: Should we do something about CO2? meta
Whether or not an energy source is "green" or renewable is not necessarily linked to CO2 emissions.
Biomass harvesting (like gasification of landfill waste or burning cow farts) is considered "green" even tho it still results in CO2 emissions.
Plus, renewable energy is often not green at all, causing massive deforestation, topsoil erosion and ground water toxicity from mining the metals and minerals to produce photo voltaic cells, wind turbines, etc.
Additionally, nuclear power generation is very "green" because its only byproduct is heat, water vapor and depleted uranium. But nuclear isn't renewable since there's a finite amount of uranium on earth.
Most people have no idea where energy comes from and 50% of people have below average IQs so the clean/dirty or green/hydrocarbon dicotamy is a flawed but popular heuristic for when people argue about energy even when they aren't qualified to do so.
I think "green" is a terrible term because most of the greenery on this planet comes from CO2 breathing plants. Plants actually grow faster during seasons with higher winds. In stillness, there is a local deficiency of CO2 around leaves. Plants are starving for CO2 almost constantly.
I used to grow cannabis and the way to achieve max yield was to introduce tanks of CO2 in the grow room. Even cycling in fresh outside air wasn't packing enough CO2 to max out what the plants were capable of soaking up.
I don't think limiting CO2 emissions as a government policy is a worthwhile effort. We'd be better off creating more (or rather repairing) CO2 sinks by planting more trees and restoring old growth forests.
CO2 emissions aren't that bad compared to other types of emissions that often come from burning hydrocarbon. What's way worse is sulphur emissions that create actually poisonous gasses and acidic precipitation. We should limit those toxic gasses for sure.
In general, I think there is CO2 hysteria. If something is actually environmentally harmful, it will be resolved. We saw this with ozone depletion caused by CFCs and also in urban areas with smog from toxic fumes. There was a clear and obvious link between the pollutants and the environmental harm and as a society, we organized to eliminate the source of the problem and nature healed itself.
Sure, you can measure CO2 levels in various locations over time and make conclusions about how fast the levels are rising. You can do the same with temperature and hypothesize that CO2 causes increased temperatures from greenhouse effect.
If this hypothesis is correct, its a good thing for human flourishing! Humans thrive in warmer climates.
The narrative lost me when I'm supposed to believe that increased temperatures will lead to sea levels rising until thousands of miles of coastline are underwater and we're in an uncontrollable death spiral until the earth is a scorched wasteland and human populations decline drastically. To me, this line of reasoning shows no respect for the ability of nature to heal and for humans to adapt. Humans are powerful enough to cause climate change but not powerful enough to undo it? IDK seems like a leap with a lot of assumptions.
I think long-term projections about climate change should be completely ignored. The biosphere is incredibly complex and impossible to model everything. Some of our "best and brightest" forecasted that COVID-19 would be the next Bubonic Plague but those models were invalidated after just a couple months. But somehow, we're supposed to take scientist's predictions about the next 50-100 years of climate data as gospel? Ok boomer.
With all that said, I think societies will still move away from hydrocarbons as a primary energy source. Nuclear and hydropower are better suited for providing reliable energy to the grid. At least in the US, nuclear and hydro are highly-regulated so it's artificially easier and cheaper to produce energy with hydrocarbons. Instead of applying more regulation to hydrocarbons, and subsidizing unreliable alternatives like wind and solar, why not de-regulate the other non-hydrocarbon reliables like nuclear and hydro? I think Bitcoin miners will be instrumental in changing the regulations around energy production in the USA.
Co2 is clean plant food
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Are you a plant?
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"the relationship between the organism and the environment is transactional—the environment grows the organism, and the organism creates the environment. The organism turns the sun into light, but it requires an environment containing a sun in order to exist. It’s all one process. It isn’t that organisms came into this world by accident or chance—this world is the sort of environment that grows organisms. And it has been that way from the beginning. From the very first moment of the big bang—if that’s the way the whole thing started—organisms like you and me were involved."
- Quote by Alan Watts
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Thanks. That makes more sense.
But I think people who just say "more CO2 => more plants" are making it very easy for themselves.
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What about the people that say "More CO2 => More problems"
It seems that CO2 levels are up 100% over the last couple hundred years. I will let you be the judge of wether or not that has caused any problems. If you have concerns with wether or not CO2 will be up another 100% over the next couple hundred years, maybe it will. But its a slow process and there will be time for most people and most species to adapt if needed. But also it will not be possible for CO2 levels in the atmosphere to double every 200 years. Because the earth is pretty much a closed system. Sometimes the carbon is stored underground, sometimes its stored in the atmosphere, its a cycle.
Can even talk about how central banking and all this debt that is in the world has released epic amounts of CO2 that wouldnt have been possible otherwise. I mean, it leads to increased consumption, demand, etc. we are borrowing from the future to spend in the presents. Therefore human CO2 emissions are likely significantly increased, and will decrease in the future as the economy switches from consuming and spending to just paying off debt one way or the other.
Btw. does anyone want to discuss if the earth is growing or not?
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deleted by author
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Look up prehistoric co2 levels and mega fauna. The co2 cycle is natural and no amount of crying is going to stop it. The argument is over how much anti-human energy restriction green-freaks are able to damage humanity with in the process
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The co2 cycle is natural
So if we dig up coal or oil and burn it, that does not increase co2 levels? Or do you consider this to be a natural increase?
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Yes it does and it is natural. We are part of the earth
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Ok, I agree that we are part of the earth and thus also nature.
But at which point does something become not natural? Is a car burning fuel natural?
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That’s how I believe bro
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That’s how I believe bro
Okay, that's fine for me. I just want to understand your position.
But I realized this discussion about "natural or not natural" is not the point. When people say that the speed and extent at which our climate changes is "not natural", they actually want to say that human activity contributes the most to the current climate change.
Would you say human activity does not contribute the most to the current climate change?