BTC & Monarchy: Why am I noticing a trend of pro-monarchism among bitcoiners? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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BTC & Monarchy: Why am I noticing a trend of pro-monarchism among bitcoiners?

1180 sats \ 18 comments \ @birdeye21 20 Jun 2023 bitcoin

I'm definitely not educated enough here. What's the argument for defending liberty via monarchy over democracy?

How does monarchy work in modern day practice? Or do neither, it's just the lesser of two evils...

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Jun 2023

Monarchy is another shitcoin version of democracy. And not all bitcoiners fall into that trap. Only the weak minds. Bitcoin do not align with any of them. Bitcoin is for sovereign individuals. Read and learn: https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/natural-law-and-bitcoin

97 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford 20 Jun 2023

This is what I would guess is happening

First, I'd recommend reading "Democracy: The God That Failed" by Hans Hoppe to better understand where this is coming from. I'm not a monarchist and neither is the author but he points out the tradeoffs between the two systems. Some who have read this book also have followed the writings of Curtis Yarvin who I believe describes himself as a neo-monarchist.

I can see why some bitcoiners would fall for this because one key difference between democracy and monarchy is that elected officials are only care takers. They have no skin in the game. A king will be able to pass his wealth and nation down to his sons. Elected officials can screw things up and they still get paid. Which one is closer to proof of work? Additionally, when a king wants to go to war he must raise taxes to fund it. Well, the people see this for what it truly is. Theft. In a democracy we are told we are the government. For the people by the people and that nonsense. Well, how can you steal from yourself? The logic is flawed but that is one of the many mental tricks/traps of democracy. That book is great at comparing the two systems but Hoppe doesn't recommend monarchy. Hoppe recommends decentralization and smaller more local governance. Not a state.

I see the neo-monarchist view as flawed and honestly I'd rather focus on individual sovereignty. The time of kings is over. The time of democracy is coming to an end. The era of the sovereign individual may be the next phase.

Hope that helps.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 20 Jun 2023

I like to try to find silver linings. I'd rather seem people coming out of the democracy delusion and maybe missing the mark a bit than people staying asleep under the spell. We aren't going back to monarchy. No way that is happening for many reasons but it is good to see people thinking about alternatives.

Everyone that is seeking to learn is on a journey. I hope they find their way. We are surrounded by second handers (See Ayn Rand). I enjoy chatting with people that think. Those that think can learn. The rest will follow as they always do.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 20 Jun 2023

Thank you! Was helpful to filter each system through the lens of PoW

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 20 Jun 2023

Proof of work is such a great mental model. The book predates bitcoin and IIRC doesn't focus on fiat currency much but it does talk about incentives as well as how the growth of the state has led to larger, longer, and more bloody wars than during the era of monarchy. It is hard to read this book and not think and for that reason alone it is worth it.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 20 Jun 2023

The thing I like about individual sovereignty is that it's bottom-up rather than top-down. It's not a system. It's something you decide to pursue, regardless of the system. Moreover, the decision is yours solely, without anyone having to cooperate with you, although cooperation helps, but it can be done at any scale and any level, not just political and "51%" like democracy. And the further you get and the more people follow suit, the less powerful the system becomes.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 20 Jun 2023

Watch and think again: If you were a king

7 sats \ 3 replies \ @badabing 20 Jun 2023

Saifedean also mentioned it once on a podcast. I don't see it tbh. Sure, the monarch should keep the masses happy if he wants his son to have the throne and a nice country to rule. But since when did that stop dictators from a violent, oppressing but "successful" rule.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 20 Jun 2023

yes, having trouble seeing it too. And from a first principles perspective it's the embodiment of centralization, can't see how that aligns.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 20 Jun 2023

It stems from Han Hoppe's insights about incentives and time preferences in various political systems. Monarchs are conceptually simplified to owners of their countries who will pass them on to their heirs, while elected officials are more akin to renters who have no long term stake in the value of the country they're ruling.

Owners tend to protect and enhance the value of their properties, while renters tend to extract what value they can before they relinquish control.

What generally gets lost is that they aren't "Monarchists" per se, but rather are pointing out that democracy is not as clear of an improvement as people assume.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 20 Jun 2023

*Hans

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @spraveenitpro 20 Jun 2023

Why am I noticing a trend of some word among bitcoiners?

Bitcoiners are just people, Bitcoin does not care - tiktok next block

Change your mental model - from group of people on twitter to normal people from all walks of life in many countries working and saving in the soundest money humanity has known.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @020cd26eee 20 Jun 2023

As far as I can tell, some people feel grumpy about democracy so they want to breathe life into a new American aristocracy. To thrive, this new aristocracy would need a psychological/spiritual wellspring which would provide its lords sublime permission to act. Usually such a wellspring takes the form of a monarch, but it can also be a salient noble idea like Liberty (or Columbia before her). Since America does not have a monarch and its reserves of salient noble ideas are beginning to look a bit like Lake Mead, these would-be Lords think they can cargo cult their way to prosperity by rehashing monarchy.

I really don't like monarchy, and I do fear the monarchy movement -- especially if energy costs start to spike and the Lord-peasant arrangement starts to become the lesser of several evils.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 22 Jun 2023

As I recall from history class, there were many who wanted to crown George Washington as king. From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Nothing about it requires democracy. People can consent to a king, and if the king protects their God-given rights, that's a much more efficient solution than the messiness of democracy.

That being said, democracy is a better risk-adjusted solution because people can't really guarantee that a monarch will remain aligned with the goal of protecting their rights. Or in bitcoin terms, think proof-of-work vs proof-of-stake. Proof of stake is much more efficient, but we prefer to take the less efficient solution as the price of immutability, decentralization, security, etc.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lux 21 Jun 2023

The goal is internal monarchy and external anarchy

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @downtownjj 20 Jun 2023

i think a lot of it comes from saifdean ammous. hes all about it, says its a low time preference since kings are there for life.. politicians, on the other hand, are looking for the short term expediency... or something to that effect.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 20 Jun 2023

It comes from Hoppe through Saifidean, because Safidean studied Austrian Economics.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zazon 20 Jun 2023

Because every bitcoiner is a king.