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23 sats \ 15 replies \ @sudonaka 17 Jun 2023 \ parent \ on: Trust Me, Bro bitcoin
I’m not sure you are aware what this product is for.
Bitcoiners will still buy actual coins P2P
Retail will buy with clean exchanges now after the SEC actions, and will take self custody as much as we can educate them.
Institutional retirement accounts have had 0 access to spot coins until now.
This product will open access to Bitcoin for 401 accounts and big managed funds. There isn’t a lot of overlap there.
This means a lot of capital is gaining access to Bitcoin for the first time. Not taking capital away from the current access routes
With masses, I meant that us bitcoiners or just regular people still care about owning real bitcoin and not paper. That they still care enough to expose bad actors, and not just NGU.
Next to that, there are other potential or new routes this capital could take. Collab custody, full reserve bitcoin banks (proof of reserve products), etc. In my opinion, we should avoid paper at all costs and I hope this etf gets denied as well.
Let's not be too naive here, this can be bad for bitcoin.
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Obviously I agree with you. My fear is that BlackRock wouldn't have committed the time, effort and money into this unless they knew it was getting approved. Larry Fink is as powerful as any politician in the U.S.
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The same way we are anti-trusting (distrustful of blackrock)
There is trillions of AUM that is strictly trusting. That money would would never have owned Bitcoin unless their money managers could invest with their buddies at blackrock
I’m just observing the facts here. I hate blackrock and esg
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Allen Farrington wrote a great article explaining how this is not a real spot etf. What you said in your reply is exactly what people said about GBTC, which could also be purchased in retirement accounts and by investors who could not hold physical custody. In this case it's worse than Grayscale, if only because BlackRock is involved. No physical redemption, free to decide on a legitimate fork is scary. BlackRock's ties to the U.S. government will allow easy manipulation of the market, just like J.P. Morgan Chase manipulates the gold market: https://www.straitstimes.com/business/banking/jpmorgan-fined-126-billion-for-manipulating-precious-metals-treasury-market
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I don’t have time to argue with you. Go deny blackrock’s application or sell me your coins if you are bearish
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I don't feel like it's an argument. I won't sell a single sat, and I'm bullish long term on bitcoin. This will allow its price to be manipulated short term, though. Before bitcoin existed I owned GLD. I was a gold bug, and I bought the GLD etf because it was real physical gold, not the DGL which I thought of as paper. I still own GLD in a retirement account. Farrington explains why, when dealing with a commodity, this type of etf is really a trust, like Grayscale. It's not the end of the world by any means. It just won't bring these huge price gains everyone imagines.
Speaking of which, check out BTC price action just after the approval of the first futures etf. Everyone anticipated a surge in price, and instead it was the beginning of the 2018 bear market. That was either intentional manipulation or typical "sell the news" price action. Same thing when El Salvador adopted bitcoin. We all expected a price surge. We got a dump.
Look, we're on the same team. I hope I'm dead wrong and that you're right. I'm just expressing my opinion.
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Absolutely. Number one thing is still education-
Not your keys not your 🧀
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You should at least consider and understand the risks, if you think education is key.
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I’m going to personally buy 0 shares of this product. Just like everyone else on stacker.news furthermore we also have 0 control over the approval.
So how about more education (not your keys not you Bitcoin) and less fud?
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I was glad to see that Matt has addressed the issues in his latest video
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What is that video?
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He addresses the issues regarding Black/Rock ie it's not an etf, the ability to choose a fork, etc, that you and I were arguing about.
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I think u posted the wrong link if you meant the bitcoin university video
Matt said it is a functional etf similar to gold etf/trusts that create/redeem units
Education is always good, especially about NYKNYB. I guess the community is really split on this. I was listening to a bitcoin podcast this morning and the two co-hosts were on opposite sides of the fence. It's important to talk about it, I think, but in the end, like you say, we can't control what happens.
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