I started using Phoenix wallet about a month ago, and so far, so good. It's not my primary lightning wallet, since I use my node wallet directly, and I use my Zeus wallet to manage my node remotely. I use Phoenix primarily to keep small amounts of no kyc sats to spend and potentially transfer any substantial amounts I accumulate to a hard wallet. Basically, it's my every day walking around wallet. I prefer it to Muun, whose on chain transactions really bug me as a matter of principle.
The wallet is non custodial, and it runs a lightning node right on your phone. The wallet was developed by ACINQ, and the code is open source. It utilizes "Neutrino filtering", which improves speed and privacy. The fee structure is okay, and more transparent than Muun's. You can swap in for a fee, which is convenient, and you can swap out and only pay the miner's fee.
I can do everything I do on the Phoenix wallet with my Zeus wallet. I just find it a little more convenient. The UI is very simple, and so far my transactions have been fast and hassle free.
I know there was a recent negative post here on SN, but I haven't experienced any issues.
What's the general consensus?
Yes, is a good wallet. I use it too.
The only thing "weird" is the channels management.
I was doing many experiments with it to find an efficient way to manage the funds.
Phoenix is opening a channel slightly bigger than what are you depositing, I could say with a 10% more. And for each channel opening is charging a 3000 fee.
If you start spending from that channel, do not spend it all, because they will close it.
If you leave some sats in the channel and make another deposit from another LN wallet, but no more than the size of the channel, the sats will fit into that already open channel and will not be opening a new one. So no more 3000 sats fee.
If you deposit from an onchain address, then it will open a new channel even if you already have an almost empty channel.
I suggest to make first time a bigger deposit, and like that opening a bigger channel.
Spend from that channel slowly until you reach the balance of 1% of it. Then refill. until 99%. And so on.
In that way you keep that channel open and pay less fees.
Indeed Phoenix is much better than Muun. And is supporting almost all types of LNURL. Definitely is good for newbies.
I have more than 3 years old channel in Phoenix. Big enough to not close it so far. The fee was much cheaper than now, and I have got like +100% channel capacity of my deposit if I good remember. So being early adopter was worth it ;)
btw, in: Settings -> Payment options and fees
there is: Automatic on-the-fly channel creation - and I keep this option switched-off for better control (for not being surprised)
Oh yeah, I forgot about that option.
Good that you mention it.
Unfortunately the option to disable automatic channel creation does not seem to be available in the ios version 🤷♂️
Confirmed, it's not there.
Muun isn't a LN wallet. Please stop comparing that abomination with actual LN wallets so that some people might get confuse and use that PoS.
You know that because you will have more technical knowledge, but newbies don't know that.
That's precisely why I was asking not to compare the PoS thingy with any actual LN wallet.
Thanks for the information. I already messed up and created way too small a first channel. I didn't want to pay the 3000 sat fee again so I have been breaking up my LN deposits into smaller amounts. I will probably bite the bullet and open a big channel, pay another 3000 fee, then follow your suggestions. Oh well.
After 300000, channel open fee is 1%. For example, 2020202 sats in should create a 2000000 sat channel.
I've used Phoenix but currently use Blixt as my main wallet.
Phoenix Pros:
Cons:
I think the reason you can't open other channels is because Phoenix connects to a trampoline node, which not many implementations support and even fewer actually run.
As for the backup seed, I've always thought that in case of a channel force close you can reedem your bitcoin with it on chain, no?
Hmm, trampolines might explain some of the speed difference as well, instead of my phone with a relatively bad connection having to figure out the route. But there are other trampoline nodes as well
Yes and no. The seed allows you to derive your bitcoin addresses, but you'd still be reliant on ACINQ in the case of data loss to be honest and give you your latest channel balance.
You're right. Phoenix is pretty open about the trust issues in the FAQ:
Oh, really? lol, I have been using Phoenix for a while and didn't know that.
I used Swap-out services like https://swap.deezy.io/ instead.
I need to check if Phoenix is already the better option
You missed this one about swaps?
#163372
I just looked at your chart again. Phoenix is the only one without a swap out fee.
Pretty impressive!
It's not from @DarthCoin (even though I can see why you thought it was, haha) but from @aftermath
My apologies. Credit where credit is due
I've seen it but didn't properly read it. I think I thought "I already know what swaps are" and missed the mentioning of Phoenix in the comparison.
It was even explicitly mentioned at the end, lol:
Thanks for linking the post!
That's why the "bookmark" feature is really good on SN :)
I bookmarked this post now too, haha
From their FAQ:
But, I believe to protect themselves, they set the miner fee because they want it confirmed asap. It can be hefty especially if mempool full. So smaller swap outs may be better handled somewhere else that charges a percentage. But nice to have the on chain payment option (swap out) available. Also swap outs do not reduce channel capacity, so if a fat channel is created, it stays fat ;)
Crazy, will test this soon
I used Phoenix wallet since it was called Eclair back in 2017. Great project then and gotten stronger throughout the years.
I strongly recommend it specially since you can enable Tor and point to your own self controlled Electrum server or use theirs.
And regarding #168271
I considered that to just be anecdotal evidence. Maybe it's even related to BlueWallet because OP send sats from BlueWallet to Phoenix while they are sunsetting their custodial LN wallet. But I don't know if that makes sense.
If this happens to a normie, yes, it sucks.
But a positive effect would be that they are basically forced to learn how LN and Bitcoin works, haha. And OP didn't lose any funds.
Either way, I had a great time with Phoenix so far.
In my opinion, Phoenix is an excellent non custodial LN wallet if you still don't want to worry about having to open your own channels. I consider it and intermediate level wallet, between Wallet of Satoshi to start with and Electrum to go full in depth.
I like it because of the built in Tor client. But the channel management and console are nonexistent, aside from force closing them.
Good wallet. I have 13 channels open now as I was funding the wallet through small payments I sent through my own node via Zeus and other sources. Fees have been significant so far (13*3000 sats). I only use the wallet now for paying when "eating" out as it's reliable and fast. Next time I probably better swap in a larger amount at once to avoid the fees. I wished there would be a heuristic that warns users that a channel will be opened next time when x amount will be received ...
Phoenix also works nicely for lightning login to stacker.news. Although it is a little bit weird to use the "send" funds button for doing that.
The integration Amethyst/Phoenix integration for zapping works smoothly as well.
ok
Good wallet. Haven't had any negative experience so far.
Working great for six months now