Lotes - physical lightning cash \ stacker news ~bitcoin

8356 sats \ 22 comments \ @hynek 27 Mar 2023 bitcoin

Three months ago we discussed the idea of lightning cash here on SN. Today I managed to finish the prototype. 

Here is a video demonstration:

https://i9.ytimg.com/vi_webp/_cQutic0CX0/mq2.webp?sqp=CLC5hqEG-oaymwEmCMACELQB8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-CYAC0AWKAgwIABABGGUgUShIMA8=&rs=AOn4CLAq53lG9oddARa3klEu_J3FDoEv_g

I've also listed some bounties if you want to get involved... There are also challenges for non-developers. Have a look: Lotes bounties

For more information you can check out GitHub: https://github.com/hynek-jina/lotes

view all related items

887 sats \ 1 reply \ @MUTINYMONEY 27 Mar 2023 freebie

This is brilliant. Ima look at drafting some stuff for your bounties when I get home

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek OP 28 Mar 2023

This is the way 👷‍♂️

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 27 Mar 2023

I like it!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Majjin 28 Mar 2023

Cool stuff! How much does it cost to create a lote?

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek OP 28 Mar 2023

I get this NTAG216 chip for this prototype for 11k sats.. This can go lower with bigger order. I would like to have some nice covers as well. So the initial guess is circa 10k sats per one note..

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @random_ 27 Mar 2023

Very cool!

I think it would be smoother if the validate/rewrite were one scan. Just my 2 cents.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek OP 28 Mar 2023

Thanks, That was the initial idea... but lack of my code skill forced me to do it in phases (with 3 seconds waiting) But it might be improved 🫠

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DiracDelta 27 Mar 2023

Given the scanning needed, can you help me understand in what situation this is a better UX than just making a p2p LN payment? It seems the handing of the note is acting as a replacement for transferring information via a phone display.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek OP 28 Mar 2023

The point is that you don't need the phone (/app /terminal) if you trust the person who gave you the lote.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 27 Mar 2023

How much data does the tag need to hold?

I would think individuals might want to use a protective cover like (https://www.amazon.com/Sleeves-Collectors-Individual-Plastic-Protector/dp/B09TT67X78) so keep the antenna from being damaged.

2 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek OP 27 Mar 2023

It takes circa 168 Bytes to store LNURLw...

The chip might be stored for example in plastic card.. or even paper..

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @BlokchainB 27 Mar 2023

How is this different than a bolt card?

5 sats \ 5 replies \ @hynek OP 27 Mar 2023

You top-up bolt card and then spend from it on LN terminals.

This is meant to be cash-like. So you top it up and then pass this card to someone else. So this receiver doesn't need anything only trust in you.. And once he doesn't want to trust you he can use this Lotes app to validate the bank note. (check if it is really topped)

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cointastical 28 Mar 2023

So unlike the opendime, this can be refilled after redeeming.

But if I am going to be passing it as cash, I don't want to lose my investment in the lote (hardware).

Do you believe these will have tradeable value equal to the btc held within plus the value of the lote?

And then, do these degrade with significant usage? (I.e., where risk of failure increases with additional use?)

25 sats \ 0 replies \ @hynek OP 28 Mar 2023

Bank note has some value as well and you can still pass it.. It will not be a problem to pass it once it gets network effect.. So you lost some and elsewhere get another one...

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB 27 Mar 2023

Then you would spend at ln terminals?

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @hynek OP 27 Mar 2023

Point is that you don't need terminal for these lotes...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 27 Mar 2023

Gotcha.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @nicosey 27 Mar 2023

NIce, how is different to e-cash?

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @hynek OP 27 Mar 2023

This version is using LNURLw instead of e-cash tokens.. But that might be the next step.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @moel 28 Mar 2023

Imagine a word in ld in which we can pay with paper notes that hold lightning tokens (with a dollar or Btc value) 😃

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nicosey 27 Mar 2023

Statechains could also be an option?