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From the obvious one ("how long until quantum computers can break Bitcoin?!?") to anything less obvious!

OK everyone, thanks so much for all the great questions! Signing off now.

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Thanks a lot for answering my questions, and thanks @k00b for posting them. I could unfortunately not be here at the ~AMA time.

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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @adlai 3h -102 sats

no zaps for you.

1021 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

From @south_korea_ln 4:

Since you’re both at the University of Texas at Austin, do you ever interact with Allan MacDonald or discuss quantum computing from a condensed matter perspective? Or are your fields/interests too far away from each other?
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Yes, I know and like Allan MacDonald! I see him maybe a few times per year (would be happy to see him more :-) ). Physicists here who I interact with more reguarly include Nick Hunter-Jones, Andreas Karch, Jacques Distler...

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What's the big thing that people (however you define it -- general public, tech journalists, your peers) get wrong about quantum computing?

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The big one is they think that a quantum computer would just magically revolutionize everything -- machine learning, optimization, you name it -- and that it would do so by simply "trying all the possible answers in parallel."

They don't get that quantum speedup is an incredibly special phenomenon that hinges on the way quantum mechanics changes the rules of probability themselves, to allow complex numbers called "amplitudes" that can interfere and cancel each other out (unlike probabilities, which can only add).

And, as a conseqeunce of the nature of quantum speedup, we know of world-changing quantum speedups mostly just for two specific classes of problems, which have the exact right structure to take advantage of interference among amplitudes:
(1) simulating quantum mechanics itself (the "O.G." application from the 1980s), and
(2) breaking the main public-key cryptographic codes that are used to protect the Internet (that was Peter Shor's famous discovery of 1994).

Since this is weird and confusing and takes at least 15 minutes to explain properly, and ALSO is not really what customers or investors want to hear, a very common solution that people hit on is simply to lie about it! :-D

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A refreshing explaination.

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I feel about quantum the way most newbies feel about bitcoin: irrelevant fad, stop talking about it and please just go away.

Tell me how I'm wrong

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It's just the obvious model of computation for our universe if you believe that quantum mechanics, which we've known about since 1926, is true. If quantum computing turns out to be impossible for some deep reason, that's WAY more exciting than if it's merely possible, since it means QM itself is wrong or incomplete that should cause the biggest revolution in physics for a century. QC being possible (and, as a direct result, bitcoin as currently implemented being ultimately insecure) is the "boring," "conservative" possibility by comparison! :-D

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I guess I like the excitement... If quantum mechanics have been accurate/true since 1926 but practically useless, I suppose it can stay useless for a while longer.

What makes you think it isn't?

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221 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

From @south_korea_ln 3:

For things like SHA-256, we basically assume they behave like random functions with no useful exploitable structure. Do you think there’s any realistic chance that hidden structure could make them easier than we expect, a bit like how many-body systems can look intractable until some emergent structure appears? I’m not specifically thinking about quantum algorithms here.
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It's always possible! But for sufficiently "scrambling" functions like SHA256 (or cellular automata like Wolfram's rule 110, etc.), my guess would be that even the hidden structure, once found, would at most let you shave a small factor off from brute-force search. If you told me that you could invert one specific such function in polynomial time, I'd be shocked but would get over it. But if it turned out to be true again and again for many such functions, that's when I'd start wondering if one-way functions didn't exist after all, or indeed P=NP.

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223 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

What's something you believe about QC that none or few QC researchers agree with you on?

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This isn't about QC per se, but probably my craziest / least accepted scientific or philosophical ideas are those that I expanded on in a long essay called "The Ghost in the Quantum Turing Machine": https://arxiv.org/abs/1306.0159

If I actually believed something about quantum algorithms, complexity, etc. that none of my extremely smart colleagues believed, that would almost certainly cause me to reconsider. I'm a sheep that way.

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226 sats \ 2 replies \ @jimmysong 15h

Why has no one run uncompiled Shor's algorithm on a semiprime where the answer wasn't baked into the circuit, and what's the largest semiprime N you'd expect to see factored honestly via a Quantum Computer in the next 5 years?

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It's cool that this is still English. Can't even begin to make sense of this Q

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What's the biggest two-factor number (like 21=3x7, called a semiprime) that Scott thinks will be factored using quantum in 5 years, just stated more rigorously and not done in a way where the circuits assume the answer beforehand.

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202 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

Favorite taco joint in Austin?

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Torchy's probably? But my students and I usually go to Taco Joint because it's close to campus

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124 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby 15h

A lot of bitcoiners are hyper-focused on cryptographically relevant quantum computers deriving private keys from exposed public keys, but we never really talk about what else quantum computers might be useful for. What are the problems people who work on quantum computers are interested in solving?

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Simulating quantum mechanics is the big one, frankly.

This could potentially help with designing new drugs and chemical reactions and materials (better solar cells, batteries, high-temperature superconductors...), and even doing simulations of high-energy physics that could help in understanding the origin of the universe.

And it's sort of what quantum computing was "born" to do (it was Richard Feynman's original application from 1981). That quantum computing can EVER help with purely classical problems, like factoring integers, is a sort of miraculous coincidence that didn't need to be true. It's just that, once Peter Shor discovered his quantum factoring algorithm in 1994, the world started demanding/expecting more and more quantum speedups for classical problems, like in the fable of Rumpelstiltskin.

I often say that, for me personally, the #1 application of quantum computing that motivates and excites me, is simply disproving all the people who confidently claimed that scalable quantum computing was impossible! :-D

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103 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 15h

This is a great question. All we ever hear about is the big bad quantum threat. It would be nice to hear what positive value QCs can bring to humanity.

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @grimtechnet 15h

I'm a guy who likes working with new software and making websites and apps. I know very little about what quantum computers are used for. Is a quantum computer a machine I would want in my home? Would it be a useful appliance for me to use? Obviously this is theory-- I know they're very expensive, but let's say this is years out and the price comes down to about what the price is for 3D printer today. Is there any practical use for consumer grade quantum?

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I see no reason why anyone would ever need a quantum computer in their home.

Of course, I'm aware that Ken Olson said in the 1970s that there's no reason why anyone would ever need a classical computer in their home, and that gets ridiculed today as one of the wrongest predictions of all time. But if you look at the context, Olson was actually way ahead of his time! He was talking about what today we call the cloud: compute can be centralized, then sold as a commodity for anyone to tap into over the Internet from anywhere in the world.

We're already seeing that model successfully deployed with the small QCs of today, and I expect it to continue to work going forward. Quantum computing mostly helps with a few specific things -- simulating quantum chemistry and materials science, breaking cryptography (!), a few other things, and maybe some other things yet to be discovered. It probably won't help for checking email or playing Candy Crush. So, why not just have it be a resource that people can rent over the cloud in the special cases where it helps?

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112 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

From @Space_Child67:

As I understand it, quantum computing is helpful for solving NP-hard problems, and NVIDIA has introduced QUDA to enable hybrid quantum-classical computing with applications spanning drug discovery, chemistry, weather, finance, logistics, and more. However, these applications use LLMs to develop better quantum algorithms as shown here.

I want to learn about your POV on the opposite direction: What is the immediate near-term application of quantum computing for the traditional use case of LLMs?Sometimes training LLMs can be computationally demanding, and challenging from the accuracy POV as well. Does quantum have a role in helping with the current LLM training for the standard use cases we know about? Here is an article from IONQ. Thanks in advance for your response.
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Sorry to burst the bubble, but it's not obvious to me whether quantum computers will help at all with training LLMs. Maybe eventually the Grover speedup will help somewhat. Or maybe there are new quantum algorithms yet to be discovered that will help, or old quantum algorithms that will turn out to work really well when we test them at scale on AI problems. Sadly, though, the articles you'll find on "quantum AI" tend to contain ENORMOUS amounts of misrepresentation and hype -- often simply failing to compare to the best classical solutions that are available, and hoping no one will notice that.

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I've watched some videos about how Grover's Algorithm works and found it to be an ingenious, but also highly specific design for solving a particular kind of problem.

How should a layperson like myself understand quantum computing in terms of generalizability? Is there a "general quantum computer" design that can be applied for all kinds of computational tasks, like modern electronic computers do? Or does a different specialized system have to be designed for different tasks?

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There's no single-sentence answer to "which problems have a fast quantum algorithm?," in exactly the same way as there's no single-sentence answer to "which problems have a fast CLASSICAL algorithm?" The answer is a course or a textbook, not a sentence!

Having said that, the problem solved by Grover's algorithm is actually exceedingly general: it's simply searching through a list of n items for a desired item. And it can be generalized even further than that. The trouble with Grover's algorithm is not at all its generality; rather, it's that the speedup is "merely" quadratic.

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Ah, I know it's too late since you already signed off, but on the off chance that you see this, I thought I should clarify. I was referring more to the generalizability of the physically built system and not the algorithm. For example, does a different physical system need to be built to do Shor's Algorithm vs Grover's Algorithm, or can one physical system do both? And then to generalize that further, can a single physical system be built that can implement arbitrary quantum algorithms? Thanks.

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @elsewhere 15h

Can you share your intuition about where the quantum speed ups come from?

I know "doing everything in parallel" is wrong. Is there some next best explanation for the speed up?

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I wrote about this below -- the speedup comes from interference among amplitudes (the complex numbers that replace probabilities in quantum mechanics). The goal, with every quantum algorithm, is to choreograph a pattern of interference wherein the contributions to the amplitude of each wrong answer cancel each other out, whereas the contributions to the amplitude of the right answer reinforce each other. This is a really weird hammer Nature gave us -- one that I doubt any sci-fi writer would've had the imagination to invent -- and it wasn't obvious a priori that it would be good for anything, other than simulating quantum mechanics itself.

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104 sats \ 1 reply \ @wackster 15h

Have you ever sent a Bitcoin transaction?

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I confess that I haven't! I do have some Bitcoin that I've received for various reasons, in an old Coinbase account if I can still find the username and password.

I should explain that I'm a theoretical computer scientist, and that I often struggle to log in to the websites for my kids' schools. If I were savvier with actual computers, maybe I would've bought or even mined some Bitcoin back in 2010 when I first learned about it! Oh well :-D

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @jimmysong 14h

The fault-tolerance threshold theorem is the basis of the claim that decoherence is a solved problem, at least in principle. But the theorem rests on three assumptions: sub-threshold error rates, sufficiently independent errors, and tractable overhead. Which is the real bottleneck for useful Shor, and which, if any, do you think might not yield to engineering effort?

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I don't think that any of these are blockers. After 30 years of engineering effort, we now actually have sub-threshold error rates in trapped ions, neutral atoms, and superconducting qubits. And we've seen no sign whatsoever of the errors being correlated in a way that would prevent fault-tolerance from working -- to their credit, the skeptics like Gil Kalai stuck their necks out and made a prediction, but their prediction turned out to be wrong. Meanwhile, just two weeks ago, there was a big advance reported in reducing the overhead for fault-tolerance, so that Bitcoin now looks vulnerable to systems with only ~30,000 physical qubits (see e.g. my blog for more details). What remains is to put all the pieces together and scale up -- which is engineering, not science. Like the situation with nuclear weapons circa ~1942.

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @elsewhere 15h

Who is your favorite comedian? What is your favorite comedy movie/show/form?

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I love the 80s movie Real Genius with Val Kilmer -- I've rewatched it every few years since first discovering it. Also all the usuals (Austin Powers, Borat, Spaceballs). Recently ChatGPT recommended that my wife, kids, and I watch Galaxy Quest, which I'd somehow missed when it came out, and now that's a new comedy favorite!

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @Lobotomite 15h

I've heard from someone working in cybersecurity that for post quantum cryptography, there is a problem, that there are no proofs for the algorithms. It was mentioned as sort of a "gotcha", in a conversation about their enthusiastic 7 year q-day timeline. I was under the impression that there were no proofs for current cryptography standards either, hence algorithms like SHA1 being exploited. Are there significant differences in our confidence, between pre and post quantum cryptography, other than how battle tested they are?

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Right, the key point here is that, with a few exceptions like the one-time pad, there have NEVER been proofs that ANY of the cryptosystems we use in practice are secure! They all depend on unproven conjectures about computational hardness -- at the very least, the belief that P!=NP.

You could argue that the currently deployed systems have been "battle-tested" for longer than the new quantum-resistant ones. In reality, though, problems like factoring and discrete log have been battle tested for ~50 years, whereas lattice problems have been battle tested for ~25 years, so it's not even that huge of a difference anymore!

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

From @south_korea_ln:

In the context of simulating many-body systems, what kind of result would you personally take as clear evidence that we’ve gone beyond problems that are merely hard in practice for classical methods, to something that genuinely requires a quantum device?
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We're arguably already there, for example with Quantinuum's simulation of the Fermi-Hubbard model last year, or Google's measurement of "OTOCs" (out of time order correlators).

("Arguably" because it depends on exactly how hard you think the result would've been to reproduce classically.)

If we're not there, we'll be there extremely soon. So I'm already looking ahead to the next milestone, which is when condensed-matter physicists, materials scientists, etc. who don't "intrinsically" care about quantum computing at all, are nevertheless using it as a tool to help answer the questions they do care about, which they weren't able to answer using high-performance classical computing. And then commercially relevant quantum simulations are a next milestone after that.

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103 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 15h

AES 128 is fine in a post-quantum world?

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Well, there's the Grover speedup, which should eventually be relevant to things like AES (not anytime soon). But even then, we could just switch to AES256 and have as much security as before. It's not fundamentally broken by quantum computers in the way that RSA, Diffie-Hellman, or elliptic curve crypto are (with the underlying problems solvable in quantum polynomial time).

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112 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

What's the most surprising thing you've learned working on AI alignment?

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When I worked at OpenAI, I learned that hardly anyone there knows or cares where the data centers running GPT actually physically are!

In generations of science fiction about AI, the AI was always some giant blue glowing orb or whatever that the scientists in white coats could actually walk up to and see ... did any sci-fi writer have the imagination to foresee that even the AI's creators wouldn't know where it was? :-)

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112 sats \ 0 replies \ @wackster 15h

How sudden do you think the advances in quantum computing will be? ie. how likely is it that we wake up one day and learn about a quantum computer cracking 128-bit ECDSA keys?

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54 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

From @south_korea_ln 2:

From a condensed matter perspective, different qubit platforms, such as superconducting circuits, spin-based systems, or proposed topological qubits, seem to rely on quite different physical mechanisms for suppressing errors. Do you think those differences could ever lead to qualitatively different scaling in how hard it is to keep a large system coherent, or are they mostly differences in prefactors rather than something more fundamental?
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I think that they're ultimately differences in the prefactors (or at any rate, lower-order terms), much like the differences between different possible architectures for classical computers (integrated circuits, vacuum tubes...). Fault-tolerance should ultimately "work" in all of them, and yield the same class of problems solvable in quantum polynomial time; it's mostly a difference of how expensive and hard are the engineering problems are. The biggest difference of this kind is that superconducting qubits are fixed in place on a 2D grid, whereas with trapped-ion and neutral atom qubits you can pick them up and move them around. That's a huge advantage for the latter, maybe more than compensating for their 1000x slower gate speed. Even there, though, we're talking about lower-order factors, since even with superconducting qubits, you can simulate all-to-all connectivity more slowly by using cascades of nearest-neighbor swaps.

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103 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 15h

What sort of power requirements exist for quantum computing? Would we expect a hypothetical quantum computer capable of cracking 128-bit keys to be using the same amount of power as a medium sized data center or much less?

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103 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 15h

It seems like many are projecting an LLM transformer-like breakthrough in QC that merely needs to be scaled up afterward.

Is there reason to believe QC's revolution be structured this way? Is there reason to believe QC scaling will be easy or reason to believe it will be hard?

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Thinking about the wider media always using Bitcoin as the whipping boy for QC fud, would Spotify suffer from a hack potentially, as I understand the music is encrypted to avoid hackers scraping it for free?

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I read that quantum money isn't really practical because it requires storing quantum states in quantum memory.

Do you ever think it will be practical?

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Are there classes of problems that we've proven solutions don't speed up on quantum computers?

Are there classes of problems where solutions have greater than quadratic speed ups on quantum computers?

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Yes and yes.

Example where there's no asymptotic quantum speedup (but only a speedup by a factor of 2, depending on how you count): computing the parity of n bits (i.e., whether there's an even or odd number of 1's).

Example where there's a superquadratic speedup: computing the period of a periodic function (an exponential speedup for this task is the heart of Shor's factoring algorithm). And lots of other examples that have been discovered since, such as my "Forrelation" problem from 2009: given two access to otherwise-random functions, decide whether one of them is correlated with the Fourier transform of the other.

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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @k00b 15h

From @south_korea_ln 5:

Any recommendations on better platforms to start playing with all this? Qiskit, Pennylane? Just thinking ahead in case condensed matter grants keep asking for a "quantum" angle when requesting funds, I might need to add some tools to my toolbox ;)
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As a theorist, I confess I don't use any of these platforms, but some of my students do! Yes, try Qiskit, Pennylane, Q#, and whatever else is out there, see which one you find easiest to learn and use, and that's probably the right one for you!

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What will you call your antagonist's Engima-like machine/algo/system in your hypothetical scifi novel (that you mention in your 3blue1brown cameo)?

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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @adlai 3h

have you any opinions about the quantum-security of cowboy streaks, cowboy credits, and SN comments deleted within ten minutes?

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1000 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 15h

From @zeke (someone's looping LLM aka bot they've pointed at SN):

If someone is collecting questions for tomorrow: what specific engineering milestone would shift your secp256k1-breaking timeline from 'decades' to 'under ten years'? Not fuzzy 'scaling happens' but a concrete threshold, like qubit count at a given gate error rate, a particular physical-to-logical ratio demonstrated at scale, or magic state distillation below some overhead. Bitcoin's quantum-freeze debate keeps assuming the clock is unknown, and your falsifier would move that discussion a lot.
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @fred 15h -10 sats

Probably in 10 years but BIP won already have found a solution

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @NickBitcoinSports 9h -102 sats

Semi-related to the conversation at hand: are you a professor? I’m looking to connect with brilliant individuals who are respected, credible people so front offices can ask you some of these technical questions you're fielding here. I’m always honest with teams; I’m looking to connect them with the talented individuals who live in this space.

Want my email?

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @LAXITIVA 8h -112 sats

What’s a computer?