I have a question about your support for BIP-110: since you've been mining with the versionbit enabled, does this mean you're truly committed? How far are you willing to take this?
For example if the fork fails to get the already extremely weak 55% and you will be mining a minority chaintip, will you shrug away the coin loss from subsidy and bet on an eventual reorg (with all consequences that come with that), or will you revert to non-BIP110 mining?
I support BIP-110 and am signaling for it for many reasons. I will not support a split chain though. I think when activated there will be a critical 10-20 blocks that determine where this goes.
To expand a bit. I think that there will be a clear heavier chain. If it's not the BIP-110 it would be too bad but it's not fatal imo. There are other ways to fix/improve things.
I think that too, yes - there's plenty things to do.
I've suggested to change the threshold up to just make it safe, as even a "signal" - as the BIP-110 author put it here on SN - would still be clear when it's 20% and doesn't activate. But my reasoning fell on deaf ears. I worry about the 55% and the hard deadline for something that's supposed to be a signal - it's an invitation for acts of bad faith from all sides, and that makes it very toxic.
No matter how toxic the camps, a long reorg serves no one in any camp, it just hurts.
55% would be a big deal and I think it would become the longer quickly. I really doubt it will fall into a gray area. The reality is the miners will choose the path that has the least risk.
BTW - the 55% threshold is the direct result of not giving Foundry, Antpool, F2Pool, or ViaBTC veto power. Too many people have given all of the power to the pools. This is the real fundamental problem.
I agree that that is the fundamental problem much more than all the softfork proposals. If everyone would make their own templates, there would be no need for BIP-110. And even more important: there would be no need to play dangerous games with chaintips and then blame it on the competition being too powerful.
I personally hope that BIP-110 fails, simply because I highly dislike the quality of the proposal and implementation choices made, and I really dislike people telling others what to do. It doesn't matter to me if the wannabe-dictator is Core removing a config option or Knots telling me the conditions to my block template, they're both equally bad.
Hopefully we can fix this with block template sovereignty in the long run, so that no one needs to tell anyone else what they can do, and we can instead enjoy strength because people (that's really the key word) have been empowered to act on their beliefs within the greater system.
It is in honor of a beach near my home called Barefoot Beach. The parent company of Barefoot Mining is Barefoot Ventures and when I formed it, I wanted to focus on businesses that could be run Barefoot at the beach.
Interestingly, the takeaway for me from The Alchemist is that the Universe conspires...it kind of becomes very deep both philosophically and with the way I think time/space and the multi-verse works.
Thanks for your service! It’s a pretty recent thing, so maybe you don’t have a strong take yet, but do you think the Mined in America Act is a good move or just another political mess-up?
Facts! You probably haven’t seen the bill yet, there’s some stuff in there you might not like. Don’t forget to hit that bolt icon on the left ⚡Be a stacker 🤠
Running Nodes, compared to Bitcoin mining/hashrate. What are your thoughts on Core breaking backward compatibility and will only support 2 releases back which will be V30+? (Side questions: What are your thoughts on OP_Net? Satoshi thought SPAM would be priced out via fees, will fees spike anytime soon to help deter Ordinals and the Taproot Wizards? ) Thanks as always, Bob, yours is a favorite voice of mine in the Bitcoin space.
I think he dropped off before seeing your question. Just a point about part of your question: Bitcoin Core supports the three most recent major versions of the Bitcoin software. So currently 28, 29 and 30. 28 would roll off once 31 is released and so on.
Institutional mining feels like a transient phenomenon based on arbitrage of stranded energy and rackspace, which is being arbed out both by AI and the decreasing block subsidy.
How long, if ever, do you see it taking until institutional mining gives way to waste-heat mining at the edge? Meaning people do it functionally at a paper loss to run residential space/water heaters or for political benefit?
I think large-scale (50MW+) operations will become uncommon but those in the 1-10MW range will explode. Most will produce their own power (like Barefoot does). But, heat re-use will also grow tremendously.
The fundamental purpose of mining is to produce block space. Also, mining has little to do with hashing, mining is really about running a node, constructing a template, deciding which block to build upon, and receiving coinbase transactions.
I worry that most institutional "adoption" will be in the form of holding some coins with a custodian. or worse, holding the etf. Do you think there will be an upswing in institutions actually using bitcoin?
I'd love to hear more about the different kinds of energy sources you all use at Barefoot Mining. I believe I heard you mention that one energy source is a biodigester at a dairy farm. Are such energy sources actually competitive with market rates for grid electricity, or is it something you all pursue because of the self-sovereignty of being off-grid?
I read things about Ant Pool and Friends and Foundry getting seven blocks in a row. How big a problem is miner centralization in Bitcoin? Are we at red alert stage yet or just it's a concern but not something to lose sleep over?
HUGE problem. They are too big and the network is exposed. As long as they are good actors nothing bad happens but the revolt should come before it does. A selfish mining attack is already possible. (Maybe happened)
Individual mining is good but it takes a lot of people collectively to make a difference. And, they must really mine - not point to an FPPS pool. That said, don't feed the mouths of the big pubcos and rally against them or at least force them socially to do the right thing.
The pubcos have been a huge driver (and negative influence on Bitcoin and mining). They are leaving/shrinking. A lot pivots from this including the Foundry/Antpool domination.
This is really great question. It is a hindrance to institutional adoption. I think they will have to work with outside firms with multi-sigs and time locks. We're not fully there yet.
BTW - we use Unchained right now and for a firm of our size it works. If I were back at Gateway (multi-billion dollar public firm), it would be much more complicated. I think many will punt and ask Morgan Stanley or Blackrock types to handle it for them. I know that it isn't a great answer but I think they'll go that route at least initially.
I worked with Liana Wallet for a while, and one of things that stood out was that often corporations were really not interested in holding their own keys, and when they were (often because of one key person's interest) it was a pretty shaky setup (like a singlesig with no real recovery plan).
The collaborative custody places are great and all, but I think many people don't see a large difference between collaborative custody and fully relying on a custodian. Indeed, I think corporations often perceive custody as a better solution than holding their own keys.
I"m looking at several others including that one. I think this is the right and responsibility of being a miner. More miners need to be engaged. Less hashers and more miners!
It's pretty tough to compete with AI but I'm very much intrigued by interplanetary travel and space. I like to read/think about time and the weird world of quantum too.
No, very low chance. Bitcoin will be fine. Plenty of work already in place to protect the ecosystem. The only thing I worry about is a split on the community on what to do with exposed coins.
Hey Bob,
I have a question about your support for BIP-110: since you've been mining with the versionbit enabled, does this mean you're truly committed? How far are you willing to take this?
For example if the fork fails to get the already extremely weak 55% and you will be mining a minority chaintip, will you shrug away the coin loss from subsidy and bet on an eventual reorg (with all consequences that come with that), or will you revert to non-BIP110 mining?
Thanks!
I support BIP-110 and am signaling for it for many reasons. I will not support a split chain though. I think when activated there will be a critical 10-20 blocks that determine where this goes.
To expand a bit. I think that there will be a clear heavier chain. If it's not the BIP-110 it would be too bad but it's not fatal imo. There are other ways to fix/improve things.
I think that too, yes - there's plenty things to do.
I've suggested to change the threshold up to just make it safe, as even a "signal" - as the BIP-110 author put it here on SN - would still be clear when it's 20% and doesn't activate. But my reasoning fell on deaf ears. I worry about the 55% and the hard deadline for something that's supposed to be a signal - it's an invitation for acts of bad faith from all sides, and that makes it very toxic.
No matter how toxic the camps, a long reorg serves no one in any camp, it just hurts.
55% would be a big deal and I think it would become the longer quickly. I really doubt it will fall into a gray area. The reality is the miners will choose the path that has the least risk.
BTW - the 55% threshold is the direct result of not giving Foundry, Antpool, F2Pool, or ViaBTC veto power. Too many people have given all of the power to the pools. This is the real fundamental problem.
I agree that that is the fundamental problem much more than all the softfork proposals. If everyone would make their own templates, there would be no need for BIP-110. And even more important: there would be no need to play dangerous games with chaintips and then blame it on the competition being too powerful.
I personally hope that BIP-110 fails, simply because I highly dislike the quality of the proposal and implementation choices made, and I really dislike people telling others what to do. It doesn't matter to me if the wannabe-dictator is Core removing a config option or Knots telling me the conditions to my block template, they're both equally bad.
Hopefully we can fix this with block template sovereignty in the long run, so that no one needs to tell anyone else what they can do, and we can instead enjoy strength because people (that's really the key word) have been empowered to act on their beliefs within the greater system.
Why 'Barefoot' mining? Are you into grounding, toe-splay stuff?
It is in honor of a beach near my home called Barefoot Beach. The parent company of Barefoot Mining is Barefoot Ventures and when I formed it, I wanted to focus on businesses that could be run Barefoot at the beach.
What is your favorite fiction book?
You didn't ask but in non-fiction I love a book called The Discoverers.
Ah! I read that some time ago. It was excellent!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Discoverers
Yes, understanding the implications and time lines of technology on society is so important but it seems few people pay attention.
Great question: I'll give you three:
Those are pretty good. I still haven't read Three Body Problem.
Interestingly, the takeaway for me from The Alchemist is that the Universe conspires...it kind of becomes very deep both philosophically and with the way I think time/space and the multi-verse works.
Great series covering science, quantum, alien life overlaid on deep moral quandary
Thanks for your service! It’s a pretty recent thing, so maybe you don’t have a strong take yet, but do you think the Mined in America Act is a good move or just another political mess-up?
Mining needs to be global. Lots in the USA is good but we still need balance
Facts! You probably haven’t seen the bill yet, there’s some stuff in there you might not like. Don’t forget to hit that bolt icon on the left ⚡Be a stacker 🤠
Running Nodes, compared to Bitcoin mining/hashrate. What are your thoughts on Core breaking backward compatibility and will only support 2 releases back which will be V30+? (Side questions: What are your thoughts on OP_Net? Satoshi thought SPAM would be priced out via fees, will fees spike anytime soon to help deter Ordinals and the Taproot Wizards? ) Thanks as always, Bob, yours is a favorite voice of mine in the Bitcoin space.
I think he dropped off before seeing your question. Just a point about part of your question: Bitcoin Core supports the three most recent major versions of the Bitcoin software. So currently 28, 29 and 30. 28 would roll off once 31 is released and so on.
bitcoincore.org/en/lifecycle/
Institutional mining feels like a transient phenomenon based on arbitrage of stranded energy and rackspace, which is being arbed out both by AI and the decreasing block subsidy.
How long, if ever, do you see it taking until institutional mining gives way to waste-heat mining at the edge? Meaning people do it functionally at a paper loss to run residential space/water heaters or for political benefit?
I think large-scale (50MW+) operations will become uncommon but those in the 1-10MW range will explode. Most will produce their own power (like Barefoot does). But, heat re-use will also grow tremendously.
Pictured here is a 5MW operation of ours using stranded natural gas.
I'll be signing off now. Thanks to everyone for the questions and conversations. I enjoyed it.
What's something you believe about bitcoin that very few bitcoiners agree with you on?
Here are a few:
What the most surprising thing you've learning mining bitcoin?
The fundamental purpose of mining is to produce block space. Also, mining has little to do with hashing, mining is really about running a node, constructing a template, deciding which block to build upon, and receiving coinbase transactions.
I'll be hanging out for another 5-10 minutes. Any other thoughts or questions?
this was excellent! thanks for taking the time!
My pleasure - thank you for hosting me.
Where do you see Bitcoin adoption in 5 years? Will mempools be busy and full?
I am optimistic that mempools (and blocks) will be very full. I don't think spam is needed for this to happen either.
Also, I think fees will rise to at least historical norms (0.335 BTC per block) and probably much higher.
And, I think the adoption will grow significantly especially corporate, institutional and government usage.
I worry that most institutional "adoption" will be in the form of holding some coins with a custodian. or worse, holding the etf. Do you think there will be an upswing in institutions actually using bitcoin?
I'd love to hear more about the different kinds of energy sources you all use at Barefoot Mining. I believe I heard you mention that one energy source is a biodigester at a dairy farm. Are such energy sources actually competitive with market rates for grid electricity, or is it something you all pursue because of the self-sovereignty of being off-grid?
Yes, we have a biodigester operating and we produce energy for about 2.5 cents per KWHR.
BTW - we produce our own energy in the 2-3 cents per KWHR range from many sources. GRID power is more expensive and less sovereign.
On our sources, we have a hydro electric we own dedicated to mining, several stranded natural gas sites, and the biodigester site.
I like the idea of landfill gas recovery as a source. Have you all investigated this as a potential energy source?
I read things about Ant Pool and Friends and Foundry getting seven blocks in a row. How big a problem is miner centralization in Bitcoin? Are we at red alert stage yet or just it's a concern but not something to lose sleep over?
HUGE problem. They are too big and the network is exposed. As long as they are good actors nothing bad happens but the revolt should come before it does. A selfish mining attack is already possible. (Maybe happened)
Do you think there is much individuals can do about this? for instance does home mining make a dent in miner centralization?
Individual mining is good but it takes a lot of people collectively to make a difference. And, they must really mine - not point to an FPPS pool. That said, don't feed the mouths of the big pubcos and rally against them or at least force them socially to do the right thing.
the trend towards miner centralization does seem worrisome. what gives you hope on this front?
The pubcos have been a huge driver (and negative influence on Bitcoin and mining). They are leaving/shrinking. A lot pivots from this including the Foundry/Antpool domination.
What would be the most useful/helpful bitcoin wallet tool for institutions?
eg. better key management so company officers could rotate multisig keys or easier colt storage practices or insurance on bitcoin holdings
This is really great question. It is a hindrance to institutional adoption. I think they will have to work with outside firms with multi-sigs and time locks. We're not fully there yet.
BTW - we use Unchained right now and for a firm of our size it works. If I were back at Gateway (multi-billion dollar public firm), it would be much more complicated. I think many will punt and ask Morgan Stanley or Blackrock types to handle it for them. I know that it isn't a great answer but I think they'll go that route at least initially.
I worked with Liana Wallet for a while, and one of things that stood out was that often corporations were really not interested in holding their own keys, and when they were (often because of one key person's interest) it was a pretty shaky setup (like a singlesig with no real recovery plan).
The collaborative custody places are great and all, but I think many people don't see a large difference between collaborative custody and fully relying on a custodian. Indeed, I think corporations often perceive custody as a better solution than holding their own keys.
Like wine?
Ew
Has Barefoot Mining considered signalling for LNHANCE? (which is also in its signalling window)?
I"m looking at several others including that one. I think this is the right and responsibility of being a miner. More miners need to be engaged. Less hashers and more miners!
Ew
Besides Bitcoin, what is most interesting to you in the world today?
It's pretty tough to compete with AI but I'm very much intrigued by interplanetary travel and space. I like to read/think about time and the weird world of quantum too.
do you think quantum computers are going to crack a Bitcoin key in the next five years?
No, very low chance. Bitcoin will be fine. Plenty of work already in place to protect the ecosystem. The only thing I worry about is a split on the community on what to do with exposed coins.
Who’s your least favourite public bitcoin miner?
I stupid I know nothing