I don't think the average Joe is interested in abolishing ICE or the police. Nor do I think the average Joe is all that worried about the actions of ICE. I think extreme leftism is a loser.
But there is a line of what makes people uncomfortable with ICE and federal police. I suspect Trump is getting close to that. Regardless of what that SHOULD be it is a thing.
Framing and media narratives are the battleground. Not a game I am playing but I still say we are in the middle of a civil war. The more common type. Not the so called one we had with Lincoln.
But there is a line of what makes people uncomfortable with ICE and federal police. I suspect Trump is getting close to that. Regardless of what that SHOULD be it is a thing.
Thats a great way to put it.
Personally, its very hard to imagine HOW they (ICE) should do their jobs the best. The scale of the problem has grown too large. To my mind, I think the order for deportations should be: (a) criminal history, (b) on welfare or public assistance, (c) unemployed .... I would put the (d) poor illegal mexican lawn worker / avocado picker at the end of the line (ideally we should have a guest worker program for them).
I suspect many average Joes have emotionally tuned out, they instinctively know the problem has grown too much, too fast and thus they are ignoring the the real potential abuses that ICE may be doing (in certain situations).
In a sense, this is just "problems of government" writ large. They created the problem and now fixing the problem is going to be messy and fraught with other problems.
In a sense, this is just "problems of government" writ large. They created the problem and now fixing the problem is going to be messy and fraught with other problems.
This is my response to the friends I have who only have outrage aimed at Trump. He's the natural response to the malfunction we call the US government and political system. I've yet to have a single one of these friends read "Return of the Strong Gods" which at this point feel prophetic.
I think most people have a hard time seeing things from both sides of an issue. Or they have no desire to do so. The status quo and Trumps actions are on the hands of both parties and their lack of willingness to come to agreements / compromise decades ago.
What I wish people would get is how this is all a game and I don't think either group of political figures care about anything besides their power. They use and abuse people pitting them against each other to grab power.
If the left actually cared about immigrants more than power they would have worked with Reagan in the 80s on reforming the US policies.
The same people during Covid ready to lock me up for going against state and local rules using the police as a weapon want the state to stop enforcing rules they don't like.
We are surrounded by hypocrisy and if we are honest we are all probably guilty of it.
It cracked me up how BLM and Defund the police just faded away during the Biden admin.
I know it didn't disappear but it wasn't given much attention by the Democrat party. They were to busy trying to use law enforcement to close businesses during Covid.
Third Way is a Washington, D.C.–based public‑policy think tank founded in 2005. It describes itself as a non‑profit organization that develops and advocates for “modern center‑left” ideas, aiming to promote moderate, values‑driven policies across economics, social issues, clean‑energy, and national security. By positioning itself between traditional left‑leaning and right‑leaning positions, Third Way seeks to act as a bulwark against political extremism and to help centrist Democrats win elections and advance reforms such as an opportunity‑focused economy, progressive social policies, and a robust clean‑energy strategy.
Yeah... kinda. But also when you want the state to solve problems or run things you give up freedom. You create a police state. Seems inevitable to me.
Property rights. Its all you need. But the state will not allow that. I'm not protesting ICE. Nor suggesting open borders. Just the state is the root problem.
Its funny to me because it is true. Many people that are today cheering on the e forcement of immigration policies and rules will not be happy when these same "officers of the law" are weaponized against them by the blue team.
That's why it's funny to me. No clue if the anon shares my perspective. I'm not in support of the anti-ICE morons but I'm also not happy to see federal policing of any kind. Just as I dont think anyone should get stolen money handed to them by the feds or state gov.
Of course their is corruption and people abusing the system. If we individuals had actual libety we could eliminate these problems. The state creates them and then offers solutions which always equal more power.
To be clear. The left is more wrong on this. They are more wrong but the right broadly isn't talking about the root problem.
Stealing from productive people and giving it to others. Not enforcing property rights. A government owning land and not enforcing their own laws. If you agree with a state and democracy but want to selectively enforce law then you have an incoherent philosophy.
That's the left and some on the right. We can't have nice things because of political systems being used to solve problems like this.
I thought we still weren't done abolishing the police, how come we're not doing that anymore?
Didn't they do enough of that to make people start hiring private police services.
Not yet. Not even close based on my circle.
I think @SimpleStacker had written about that happening in a neighborhood near him.
Not a neighborhood near me. My neighborhood. I am paying for it
Living the dream
At least the weather is good /sarc
Not saying it isn't happening. Has been for a long time.
I don't think the average Joe is interested in abolishing ICE or the police. Nor do I think the average Joe is all that worried about the actions of ICE. I think extreme leftism is a loser.
But there is a line of what makes people uncomfortable with ICE and federal police. I suspect Trump is getting close to that. Regardless of what that SHOULD be it is a thing.
Framing and media narratives are the battleground. Not a game I am playing but I still say we are in the middle of a civil war. The more common type. Not the so called one we had with Lincoln.
Thats a great way to put it.
Personally, its very hard to imagine HOW they (ICE) should do their jobs the best. The scale of the problem has grown too large. To my mind, I think the order for deportations should be: (a) criminal history, (b) on welfare or public assistance, (c) unemployed .... I would put the (d) poor illegal mexican lawn worker / avocado picker at the end of the line (ideally we should have a guest worker program for them).
I suspect many average Joes have emotionally tuned out, they instinctively know the problem has grown too much, too fast and thus they are ignoring the the real potential abuses that ICE may be doing (in certain situations).
In a sense, this is just "problems of government" writ large. They created the problem and now fixing the problem is going to be messy and fraught with other problems.
This is my response to the friends I have who only have outrage aimed at Trump. He's the natural response to the malfunction we call the US government and political system. I've yet to have a single one of these friends read "Return of the Strong Gods" which at this point feel prophetic.
I think most people have a hard time seeing things from both sides of an issue. Or they have no desire to do so. The status quo and Trumps actions are on the hands of both parties and their lack of willingness to come to agreements / compromise decades ago.
What I wish people would get is how this is all a game and I don't think either group of political figures care about anything besides their power. They use and abuse people pitting them against each other to grab power.
If the left actually cared about immigrants more than power they would have worked with Reagan in the 80s on reforming the US policies.
The same people during Covid ready to lock me up for going against state and local rules using the police as a weapon want the state to stop enforcing rules they don't like.
We are surrounded by hypocrisy and if we are honest we are all probably guilty of it.
It cracked me up how BLM and Defund the police just faded away during the Biden admin.
I know it didn't disappear but it wasn't given much attention by the Democrat party. They were to busy trying to use law enforcement to close businesses during Covid.
Clearly there isn't agreement on the left/center-left about this.
Being against ICE is the only rallying point they have. This seems like bad advice.
If ICE is the only rallying cry they have... they are screwed.
Maybe they'll think of something new, but they were still trying to rally around ACA subsidies just a few months ago.
Affordability is the winner in my opinion.
Most of the inflation happened under Biden, though. That’s too easy to turn back on them.
I’d say relentlessly hammering Trump over the Epstein coverup would be better, since it clearly bugs him.
But, federal agents swarming the streets shooting Americans still seems like the winner.
Yeah... the optics work on a lot of people. Epstein indeed is an easy one.
Agree that most of the inflation is on Biden but the truth doesn't matter. Not like people even understand why prices rose anyway.
Epstein files will not be a midterm issue
That's their mistake, then. Trump did very well blasting the Democrats for the Epstein coverup and now he's gotten it all over himself.
They don’t understand but they remember being pissed off about Biden’s historically high inflation rates.
Trump is daring people to riot like they did in 2020 so he can invoke the insurrection act
if these nut jobs stopped impeding ice and other federal agents, they wouldn't get what they deserve
I’m not talking about what’s true. I’m talking about might sell politically.
The vast majority of Americans don’t want federal officers shooting Americans in the streets.
vast majority minus 1
1000 percent
https://www.thirdway.org/about
Understanding the Third Way
Third Way is a Washington, D.C.–based public‑policy think tank founded in 2005. It describes itself as a non‑profit organization that develops and advocates for “modern center‑left” ideas, aiming to promote moderate, values‑driven policies across economics, social issues, clean‑energy, and national security. By positioning itself between traditional left‑leaning and right‑leaning positions, Third Way seeks to act as a bulwark against political extremism and to help centrist Democrats win elections and advance reforms such as an opportunity‑focused economy, progressive social policies, and a robust clean‑energy strategy.
What is a centrist Democrat?
Any examples?
maybe this guy: James Talarico
jamestalarico.com
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5GGtWMsqNE1g8oJHof9nd8
LOL.
We are surrounded by absurdity.
Horseshoe theory
Yeah... kinda. But also when you want the state to solve problems or run things you give up freedom. You create a police state. Seems inevitable to me.
you mean like immigration?
Should we solve this problem ourselves w/o the state? I'm all for it if the state would not get in the way
I have lots of ideas on how to eliminate illegal immigration if the state gave me immunity from prosecution
Property rights. Its all you need. But the state will not allow that. I'm not protesting ICE. Nor suggesting open borders. Just the state is the root problem.
What is happening now with ICE was inevitable
which is also absurd and incoherent
why is this funny? I don't get the punchline
Its funny to me because it is true. Many people that are today cheering on the e forcement of immigration policies and rules will not be happy when these same "officers of the law" are weaponized against them by the blue team.
That's why it's funny to me. No clue if the anon shares my perspective. I'm not in support of the anti-ICE morons but I'm also not happy to see federal policing of any kind. Just as I dont think anyone should get stolen money handed to them by the feds or state gov.
Of course their is corruption and people abusing the system. If we individuals had actual libety we could eliminate these problems. The state creates them and then offers solutions which always equal more power.
The answer is always more state.
To be clear. The left is more wrong on this. They are more wrong but the right broadly isn't talking about the root problem.
Stealing from productive people and giving it to others. Not enforcing property rights. A government owning land and not enforcing their own laws. If you agree with a state and democracy but want to selectively enforce law then you have an incoherent philosophy.
That's the left and some on the right. We can't have nice things because of political systems being used to solve problems like this.
Lmao retard. Please self deport asap.
Not surprising