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I use a few proton products: mail, VPN, drive, and proton pass. Today I see they have came out with Proton Sheets:
It looks like they're imitating Google's growth path, but as a privacy first company.
I don't want to be overly negative, but is it possible to keep all of these balls in the air while trying to maintain the security that is at the heart of their brand?
Opinions?
188 sats \ 10 replies \ @optimism 4h
is it possible to keep all of these balls in the air
Yes you can, if you can afford it. You'll have a product team for each product, product areas for each group, and verticals for security frameworks and auditing and the like.
I've successfully worked with 30+ concurrent product teams (of 6-12 devs each) in the past so yes, it can definitely be done. We would build huge systems. It's a nightmare if you're a stakeholder for every team of course so you need to have a team to delegate leadership as well. In the end I had 6 product area managers and a handful of architects that would be responsible for the overall ecosystem between them as a technical leadership team.
Managing a successful suite of products isn't an issue, the issue comes when you start having non-performing products and you start facing pressure to cut costs. This is where things can get shitty quickly. If you want to compare to Google, think Google Plus.
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100 sats \ 9 replies \ @siggy47 OP 4h
Google Plus! That brings back memories. I actually used it for a while.
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36 sats \ 8 replies \ @optimism 4h
Did you like it?
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168 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 3h
I actually did. I can't remember too much about it, but if I recall it was an easy, clean UI. I remember trying this group thing called circles. I was enthusiastic at the beginning, but it never seemed to take off, and none of my family and friends were using it.
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36 sats \ 2 replies \ @optimism 3h
I had similar feelings about it. Also I generally don't like one-stop shops, and that definitely goes for proton too.
If there really is demand for browser based office-like functionality, maybe one day CryptPad deserves to be tested.
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 3h
I'm not familiar with CryptPad. You gave me something new to explore.
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CryptPad is great if you're primarily working with a small-ish group of rough&ready bit coiners. Teams of users that are expecting parity with Google or M$ are going to be disappointed.
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I was so hyped about it when they dropped it, but it was a complete boondoggle, from my memory. Circles was a neat idea, but suddenly, I was responsible for maintaining a social network in two locations (FB & G+).
With the dual maintenance hinderence & with the still-fresh memory of dropping Wave, I didn't commit as hard as I could. Plus, as a community manager at the time, I was in the awkward position of trying to encourage the company to devote resources to the new thing, and the complexity of the social circle UX didn't make that push easy.
Circles were neat, and obviously NOSTR should take lots of inspiration from all that wonderful tech from 2008-14
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @optimism 2h
Circles were neat, and obviously NOSTR should take lots of inspiration from all that wonderful tech from 2008-14
This must be the most constructive idea I have ever encountered re: G+!
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @itsrealfake 1h
haha.. I guess that is a funny way of saying that you haven't heard a lot of positive recollections from G+
As I recall it now, I guess G+ was the beginning of the end of my appreciation of the "big tech" things that I liked so much. It was around the time that Ross got pinched. It was around the time that Boston happened... I remember watching all that from my office in Beijing... while the US sleeping all the expat observers were blown away by what we watched. Scary.
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Yes and no, I've heard before and actually agree with that some of the things that Google did with G+ were good yet "gone forever" but it would be interesting to take process design queues from it and see what works with nostr, so I do think it's a great idea.
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Their service is great, no doubt, but let’s not forget about this.
Proton Mail Discloses User Data Leading to Arrest in Spain #531039
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83 sats \ 5 replies \ @optimism 5h
I think the "safe" signup process is:
NOTE: Do not use their VPN service or your real IP at any time, also not during signup. Instead use mullvad (obscura perhaps even better). Now they cannot report your IP address.
  1. Open free account
  2. Do NOT give them a fallback email
  3. Once you have the free account, upgrade with bitcoin, pay through submarine swap
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pay through submarine swap
Nice touch! Preferably via SwapMarket. Coinos wallet can also be used for this.
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21 sats \ 3 replies \ @optimism 4h
It would be more stylish if you'd say
Preferably via Boltz
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100 sats \ 2 replies \ @SwapMarket 1h
SwapMarket lists Boltz as one of the backends. You will swap directly and atomically regardless what front end you use. Or you knew this already?
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 56m
Yeah I was just pulling your leg
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haha, I knew it
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136 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB 2h
Yikes might need to abandon the Google ship! Google Sheets was the only think kind of keeping me there.
A good spreadsheet is hard to find. I use Libre on my Linux and it’s terrible at times. It won’t even do simple functions like sum!
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 2h
It won’t even do simple functions like sum!
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deleted by author
I like my spreadsheets like I like my porn: Safely on my computer. This won't make me give up LibreOffice, that's for sure.
One thing worth remembering about Google's growth is that they also killed products when they thought they weren't worth it (Reader still pisses me off). I'd imagine Proton's got the same plan if this fails.
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116 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 4h
I use only the proton mail for some specific throwaway emails / services. I do not rely on their services because I have enough of my personal servers and services.
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136 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 4h
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 40m
I think they can as long as they don’t stray too far from the core product offers.
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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1h
In short, yes. If they grow their team in a healthy way. Google is very good at security. They just don't care about privacy. Their addition of apps makes sense to me as well. People want to replace Google. The reality is it takes a suite of apps to do that.
Caveat. I would have the same concern as you. Many companies struggle with growth.
FWIW I have only ever used and trusted their email service. They did buy simplelogin which I used prior to the purchase. For the office apps I self host Nextcloud and there are good companies like Federated Computer for those that can't self host. But I don't use Spreadsheets in Nextcloud. I stick to Libre Office which is great and if I need to share I can use Nextcloud or Syncthing.
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36 sats \ 2 replies \ @j7hB75 1h
Yeah, I always dislike when companies start small, in a niche, but then start expanding and spreading themselves thin. Personally, I don't like it. Do one thing and do it well.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 1h
Have you ever run a business? I know what you mean but you described every business. They all start small and grow or die. Growth is the hardest thing if you manage to not die. Especially these days.
The market is brutal. That's why free markets lead to strength and resilience. Only the strong survive. In our system you can buy off politicians and rig the system. The leaches skew it.
Proton growth does concern me but it's pretty normal
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @j7hB75 1h
Yes, I've ran a business, but no where at the scale of Proton. All I'm saying is that I liked Proton when it was just ProtonMail. Now it's grown and spread into many other products further questioning the quality of said products over time. There's also the factor of people trusting one vendor for all their needs instead of compartmentalizing but that's another discussion.
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