I'm not sure if this is good or bad \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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1101 sats \ 26 comments \ @siggy47 16h bitcoin

While scrolling I just saw this CNBC headline:

Stock futures are little changed after major U.S. averages rebound on bitcoin bounce

It made me stop to think about how ordinary it is to see bitcoin mentioned in financial headlines now. Not only that, but here it's as if they are attributing the US stock market bounce to bitcoin. I have been reading financial headlines for years, and I know they come up with some ridiculous correlations. In fact, I'm betting bitcoin's performance today didn't cause the stock markets to do well.

What is interesting is that CNBC would put it out there, assuming their readers would just take it in stride.

I didn't realize how much acceptance bitcoin has achieved (?) in the financial world. I guess that's what a BlackRock ETF will do.

Is it good or bad? I don't know. It is looked at as a valuable asset. Does the average Joe think of it as money? I doubt it. Does it mean NGU? Probably. Should we care? I don't know.

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72 sats \ 1 reply \ @billytheked 2h

It seems like literally every fucking finance article i am fed on every "news aggregator" I look at now is talking about bitcoin.

Could it be, we are seeing this flywheel because journalists/analysts are increasingly relying more and more on AI, and AI is relying more and more on lazy journalists?

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 2h

You're right. CNBC is still using that headline today.

36 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 1h

Just about every talking head they bring on to talk about Bitcoin equates it to a proxy for overall liquidity, so when things are down Bitcoin is the canary in the coal mine and on the upswing stocks can't fly until Bitcoin bottoms.

That's a pretty fair take imo, Bitcoin is a battery for fiat, so using it as a macro indicator is logical.

If you expect Bitcoin is the next world reserve currency as I do then everything is going according to plan.

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @halalmoney 41m

Interesting. If this plays out, then I can see central banks buying Bitcoin during the good times and utilising it during the bad times. The merger of Keynes with Corn.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 29m

Yea, imagine what they'd do during a sovereign debt crisis/dollar milkshake endgame for most of the world's fiats, some fiats are about to roll over because they can't service their debt and yet a few others are spiking because so much debt is denominated in it...

Do they dump all their dying foreign reserves for dollars / francs / gold?

Gold is limited by physical delivery, unless you want to risk it being in a foreign vault subject to confiscation / fractional reserve during the coming crisis...

And with the US is turning off the spigot of offshore dollars, in favor of stables, do you buy dollar-stables and outsource your entire banking apparatus to some foreign company that can simply disable your coins?

Do you hoard oil / iron? China's trying this, but storage is expensive and can only be done with the permission of the US Navy.

Or do you dump those toxic foreign reserves for Bitcoin that you can use to access stables only as needed to service your debt?

The "suddenly" part of the speculative attack won't come from plebs that could always act sovereignly for lack of institutional encumbrance, but from sovereign states once they realize they're out of options.

111 sats \ 11 replies \ @kepford 15h

I've said it till I'm blue in the face. Any new asset that has achieved a level of understanding and acceptance will become something the current system adopts into their current systems. Gold ETFs don't predate gold but if there was a new discovery of an element and it had actual utility it would eventually be traded.

That's it. Bitcoiners get to worked up about "the right way". Bitcoin isn't an ideology. Just as gold isn't. Oh course its creator had one and we all have them but bitcoin just is.

72 sats \ 10 replies \ @siggy47 OP 15h

So there is nothing really "wrong" with any asset? ETH? Ripple? Tether? Mortgage backed securities? It's just the people who trade them?

36 sats \ 5 replies \ @optimism 6h

I personally think it's an insult to MBS to name those in one list with Ripple, even though it's still dirty trickery.

USDT is IOUs except it's kind of opaque XRP is corp stocks ETH is corp stocks that then diluted through PoW rewards

None of these compare with Bitcoin in mechanism, so the problem is to enumerate them in the same group as Bitcoin, or even "shitcoins". It's not apples-to-apples.

100 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 OP 5h

Kind of my point. Bitcoin isn't just another asset.

36 sats \ 3 replies \ @optimism 4h

It's not if you're using it, no, and I think we agree.

Just like gold being something different for a jeweler than for a gold ETF, though?

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 4h

Yes. I think I'm having trouble expressing myself re kepford's point. If you have read Nic Carter's maxi attack from a few years back, he basically criticized bitcoin as taking on an almost religious worship among its adherents. He saw it as just another tool. An asset to be used like others. I think it is fundamentally different. There's nothing wrong with the financial system embracing it. Sometimes I worry that it will stifle adoption, but I could be wrong, and even if it does, that would only be temporary anyway. But, it shouldn't be judged by its performance in that system. Being brought into the financial system, as a treasury asset or through ETFs, will only lead to financialization and rehypothetication like gold suffered from after 2005. It looks like that is ending (temporarily?) for gold and silver now, which is good. Wall Street sees bitcoin, on the other hand, as a risk-on tech asset. That's why gold bugs and financial normies are quick to dismiss bitcoin's store of value properties whenever its 24/7 liquidity is used to bail out some other, inferior asset.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @halalmoney 38m

The market knows that gold was neutered by the etfs. Perhaps the market is waiting to see if bitcoin will be similarly neutralised.

72 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 3h

it shouldn't be judged by its performance in that system.

This is why my SN header says 1sat=1sat. It's a bit of a comforting lie, but it helps focusing on things that matter.

will only lead to financialization and rehypothetication

If Bitcoin is an independent asset, then indeed, like gold and housing, it risks being enshittified by governments, corporates and their narration of markets. There is no way to stop it other than by offering an alternative way. We don't need to develop that alternative because we somewhat have it, but, due to the financialization, we're not free from influence of the tradfi system and their shenanigans either, because arbitrage. You wouldn't buy my service if I price it statically in 2015, 2019 or 2023 BTC, because it'd be cheaper to sell less sats for fiat and source it from someone that accepts fiat then; we cannot be free of fiat as long as it isn't dead. And if it dies then some clown will issue stonks or other IOU vehicles in their ponzi at any time and scam people out of their sats that way.

I still do think Bitcoin is the best vehicle we've got as a tool in the financial freedom belt, but it's not going to eradicate greed, manipulation, and ponzis, and it won't be immune to that. I'm ashamed to not be able to formulate a workable vision for a Bitcoin future that is free of bad actors.

36 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlokchainB 13h

Good point. In a free market without regulation investors will sell you dog shit in a paper bag if they can get away with it. But has the current system ever made sense? People trade US debt around and have the nerve to call something that is on the 38+ Trillion in the hole “a safe haven”

So should be be surprised that MBS, ripple and eth found a market for traders

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 13h

I see @kepford's point. It's like Nic Carter's attack on bitcoin maxis for treating bitcoin like a religion:

https://cointelegraph.com/magazine/nic-carter-bitcoin-maxis-losing-doge-x-hall-of-flame/

I'm sort of guilty as charged. I do think it is different and ideological.

139 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 9h

The market is the aggregate of individual opinions. ETH may be useless. I think it is. But I'm in the minority. Point is, this is just how it works. The world isn't gonna wake up loving Rand and Rotbbard tomorrow. I think we see bitcoin as much more than an asset. But the reality is gold isn't even understood the way I and many hard money people see it. Why would we think bitcoin will be different? If bitcoin is what we think it is people won't have to understand it to be affected.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 8h

People are free to choose in my book. I have no desire to buy into those things. If they are scams they will be exposed in time.

105 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 16h

the "on" there is indeed pretty suspicious. Is this just an example of CNBC word salad, or is there a legitimate case that the rally was triggered by bitcoin?

124 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 14h

If it's word salad, "bitcoin" being included is interesting

If it's not word salad, attributing anything broad to bitcoin is interesting

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 15h

I feel as if daily business headlines must give a reason for the day's price action. Often it seems there is little evidence for the supposes cause they latch onto.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 7h

Could it be that Bitcoin is quick to react to market influences like the FED injecting $13.5 Billion overnight? Because Bitcoin trades 24/7/365 and is still a rather volatile and highly reactive market.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @AB88888k 8h

₿itcoin is evolving into the clearest and most accurate measure of global LIQUIDITY…ever. As bitcoin the currency touches and embeds itself into more and more fiat areas; this results in, ₿itcoin the Protocol becoming even more relevant to the global financial system.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 8h

Bitcoin gets clicks and CNBC is as click-thirsty as they come.

My average Joes, even those facing counterfeit cash problems, feel its too dangerous to use as money.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @d680ecaa8e 9h

I think it is bad because governement could control us by CNBC.

46 sats \ 0 replies \ @SHA256man 12h

u have to see and care to see where the average Joe/Joy's mental state is, and where he/she is going to be herded next, unless a stacker intervenes;

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @SwapMarket 15h

yeah, noticed that too. for the last couple of days they make it sound like bitcoin drives the stock market. weird.