pull down to refresh
1367 sats \ 15 replies \ @elvismercury 14h \ on: The part of Bitcoin you *have* to trust bitcoin
This is the biggest thing missing from almost every discussion of btc, in my opinion -- what it means for it to succeed or fail, the various moves the state could make, what might happen as a result, and how we could tell, empirically, if it were happening.
My take is that most bitcoiners are operating under cartoonish assumptions about this, mainly from having never really thought critically about any of it and having instead incorporated the btc talking points as a matter of religion. The tell of this way of being are the grandstanding critiques of the existing systems, including prophecies about its ultimate fate, without actually understanding anything about it aside from what you've half-assedly absorbed from bitcoin podcasts.
A fun exercise is to tune in to media from the Hated Other and listen to how they make sense of the world. Feel the outrage rise up in you, all the but actuallys you swallow, or maybe don't swallow. And then realize that you're doing the same thing as they are. If you doubt that you're doing the same thing, ask some friends (or former friends) about what they think about your hot takes about their ideologies. Whether you're representing them fairly, in a way they'd endorse. Oops.
This behavior isn't unqique to bitcoiners, of course, although I used to expect better of them.
There’s also an excluded middle issue. Even when your critics are stupid and misinformed, there still might be undiscovered problems with your own position.
I know I often take it as confirmation of my own correctness when I realize someone who’s disagreeing with me can’t actually back up their position, but strictly speaking that isn’t the implication.
reply
I know I often take it as confirmation of my own correctness when I realize someone who’s disagreeing with me can’t actually back up their position, but strictly speaking that isn’t the implication.
Ugh, this is one I have to fight against really hard, in all aspects of life: demolish somebody's stupid critique, demolish their rebuttal of my demolition, feel more sure than I did before. How sure should you feel about your skills when you can beat a child? And yet there's this giant desire for it.
reply
Not govs will kill Bitcoin, but dumb and scared people. Blind compliance and statism is what will kill Bitcoin.
Remember the key word: COMPLIANCE
Many of today's people calling themselves bitcoiners, will drop BTC in a blink of an eye, when a gov will say that will not receive anymore money if they do not use some bullshit token or CBDC.
Today's people are so fucking cowards and totally brainwashed. Very few will stand their ground and say a firm NO, no matter what. Many will come with all kind of excuses but none will want to make any sacrifice.
We are writing a shit ton of articles, guides, documentation, podcasts, debates etc... all for nothing. People still go and use fiat and obey the gov orders.
So no... Bitcoin will not thrive, will not even get used mainstream until people will stop believing in gov authority.
Until then, Bitcoin will be just an underground economy, only for the brave.
reply
One of my big “aha moments” was thinking about how few weirdos like yourself, scattered all around the world, are actually needed to keep bitcoin going.
It can survive much more than its enemies can because it’s almost impossible to hunt all of you down.
reply
I am already using bitcoin at daily basis, but underground, in economies that are only p2p, where people don't give a fuck about any gov.
But yes, I made a lot of sacrifices and I will make even more, just to keep this life.
And we just live a simple normal life.
And that will not be taken by anybody from me. I will be the last man on earth using bitcoin.
reply
It’s as unstoppable as anything involving mortal beings, as far as I can tell.
reply
This is a great observation! Bitcoin does attempt to even the playing field between a very well resourced state and a disparate group of individuals. All the things that most excite me in life are like this.
reply
My take is that most bitcoiners are operating under cartoonish assumptions about this, mainly from having never really thought critically about any of it and having instead incorporated the btc talking points as a matter of religion.
This is partly due to how many disciplines Bitcoin touches, and no one can be an expert in all of those.
Some bitcoiners will read Saif's books, which focus on the monetary side and talk about Austrian economics, and they'll conclude Bitcoin is the perfect form of money, with all the benefits of gold and none of its drawbacks, while skimming through the technical aspects and ignoring issues like the security budget, miner centralization, the risk of contentious forks, quantum threat etc.
Most of Saif's readers won't read Micah Warren for example, and most math heads are probably not that interested in reading Mises, and even less so in anything to do with politics or sociology.
Bitcoin is too complex for most bitcoiners to understand, and there is reflexivity in it, e.g. the differences in people's understanding can affect its future.
Also, Bitcoin adoption relies on proselytizers and orange-pillers, who understandably tend to idealize, simplify, reduce nuance to catchy phrases etc. to reach and inspire the masses.
reply
This is an interesting point. To go deep on Bitcoin almost necessarily means missing out on some other part of it.
reply
A fun exercise is to tune in to media from the Hated Other and listen to how they make sense of the world. Feel the outrage rise up in you, all the but actuallys you swallow, or maybe don't swallow. And then realize that you're doing the same thing as they are. If you doubt that you're doing the same thing, ask some friends (or former friends) about what they think about your hot takes about their ideologies. Whether you're representing them fairly, in a way they'd endorse. Oops. This behavior isn't unqique to bitcoiners, of course, although I used to expect better of them.
this is sort whataboutism/flakey appeal to symmetry doesn't count for much. It's perfectly possible that one party's indignation is based on more sound, rigorous reasoning than another.
Just because they also are emotionally upset about something, doesn't mean their arguments are just as valid/correct/accurate as someone else's.
Reality matters, truth is fixed -- not arbitrary and relative
reply
It could mean that one party is more rigorous, sound, whatever, but it probably doesn't; not statistically. Although I'm sure it's comfortable to believe so.
One can appeal to symmetry on bullshit grounds, and this is often done; or one can do so because wrt human concerns, the kind of crystalline truth people pretend to is basically absent.
This, I would suggest, is the reality that matters most.
reply
I'd be curious as to what you think the most widely held cartoonish assumptions are among bitcoiners.
reply
Jesus, where to start.
Probably my favorite is the utopia some people expect to unfold once fiat is defeated. My second favorite is that fiat will be defeated at all, and replaced by btc, vs btc incorporated into the system of the world along with everything else.
reply
Yeah, I agree. Though I wonder how many people just say it as a virtue signal within the bitcoin subculture, vs truly believing it. You learn more about a person's beliefs by their actions as opposed to their words.
reply
No argument, except maybe that words, in this case, are worth a lot. I feel like people blathering obvious nonsense to fit in w the zeitgeist tells me a lot abt who they are and how much attention I should loan to their opinions.
reply