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1158 sats \ 22 replies \ @2bithits 27 Jan 2023 \ on: What is the best takedown of Bitcoin out there? bitcoin
Joe Kelly has written a bunch of articles. He seems to be one of the only people who understand the mechanics of bitcoin & has an opposing view.
https://joekelly100.medium.com/
Honestly I think this will take the cake. Joe does have some strong points.
I think what's making up my mind is the mirror image of the path to getting on the Bitcoin train. There is no single post or explanation that will fully transmit all the information necessary to see why bitcoin can be a globally transformational change up of our whole monetary system and beyond. Similarly, there is no single post or explanation that can fully delve into the potential weaknesses and forseeable problems with the system.
Joe has several different articles and arguments which build on eachother, each with a different line of thinking in a different area of the system, and taken together along with some critical thinking and independent analysis on my own part, it constitutes the best takedown I've seen of Bitcoin out there.
Thanks so much for this
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Good luck fed 😉
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Winner goes to paywalled "security budget" fud?? Idk man...
Thanks for putting up the bounty though, I enjoyed this thread
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I tried to summarize it in another branch: #127685
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Who would you have picked as the winner?
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me
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It wasn't paywalled when I read it a year or so ago
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Can anyone summarize the points, or provide non-paywalled links?
We definitely disagree that a single post can't transmit what's necessary to see why Bitcoin can be a globally transformational change.
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If I remember correctly its a government or governments gaining more than 51% of the hash rate to DOS attack so no transactions get through. They have basically an unlimited budget & as the network gets attacked more bitcoiners will try to get out creating a kind of death spiral. As the price of BTC comes down it will be cheaper to continue this wasteful mining.
Something like that
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Oh I like that, maybe I'll make another bounty about that one
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Wow!
Yeah, I really think Joes arguments need to be answered by bitcoiners that know more about the mechanics of BTC.
Thanks so much!
Here's an interview of him discussing some of these ideas.
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Joe's arguments are the strongest I've come across.
Countries nationalize privately run oil production all the time, they could unite and nationalize BTC mining facilities, then grief the remaining 49% by always orphaning their blocks.
To save BTC, at that point coordination among non-government devs/nodes/hodlers must occur to change the hashing algo and agree on at which block height to fork off. That's a big frickin headache. Price would take a dive even from explicit threats of nationalization, let alone threats of block-orphan-griefing.
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I guarantee the Core devs already have a new hashing algo ready to go in case such an event. I'm also pretty confident a fork would happen quickly, as node operators and users want to preserve their wealth.
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Remaining miners would be in an uproar over worthless hardware. Companies would be totally confused over what flavour of bitcoin to accept. Governments could use a fraction of their military spending to 51% attack the next algo until all purchasing power is lost.
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Its only the US government that is left in this scenario.
And it would be VERY unpopular for an elected president to put through such a policy.
Bitcoin despite the environmental FUD is still growing in adoption & so also in popularity
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You mean a lot of hashrate currently resides in the US?
Narratives can be spun and repeated until popular, as the last years have shown.
What might help is increasing the pace of adoption: https://www.swanbitcoin.com/the-race-to-avoid-the-war/
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Its a very small possibility. Maybe if we get a strong man takeover of the US where they confiscate asics.
Bitcoiners will see this coming & set up elsewhere.
Unlikely, but yeah don't get too comfortable thinking nothing like this could happen.
Prepare for the worst
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If FATF and BRICS countries agree they don't want competition with their fiat, things are going to get spicy.
As long as we are not seen as a threat in geographical territories with a good mix of cheap energy and preferably cool climate, we are okay. Otherwise we'll have to find an alternative to proof of work (no, I'm not advocating PoS).
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Sovereign individual thesis. If the West want to stop bitcoin mining, other countries or jurisdictions look to benefit from productive companies & individual wealth.
Free market & truth win in the end.
At that point, you have an outright war for sound money.
That's a good outcome.
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deleted by author
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As far as I know, this is the only legitimate opposing view on Bitcoin that I've seen. However, this raises one big question from me: WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR?! If nation-states can kill Bitcoin, the best times were in 2010, 2013, 2017, 2021...if they're capable of creating a mining monopoly, they should do it NOW just so everyone can be sure. All I can do is guess what the state has in store for Bitcoin
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