My 2 sats constructive critique for Lightning.Pub / ShockWallet \ stacker news ~lightning

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My 2 sats constructive critique for Lightning.Pub / ShockWallet

1049 sats \ 35 comments \ @DarthCoin 2 Nov lightning

@justin_shocknet I know I could just ask you these aspects on a more direct channel on Telegram, but I also want stackers to see that I do not kiss your ass and I always come up with constructive critiques for a product.

This is also an opportunity for others to know about your app and discuss it, test it, improve it etc

Zap 2 sats if you agree, zap more sats if you disagree... and discuss it.

Let's say it from the beginning: this app is still in its alpha phase so treat it mostly for testing! Is a functional app but I suggest to be used by those that know what they are doing. Yes it could be used for total noobs in the bootstrap mode and report back to devs some feedback.

I've tested this for some time Lightning Pub and Shockwallet on both ways: self custody and bootstrap (using ShockNetwork node). And I like the concept.

I tested Lightning Pub even on a dumb tablet with a linux os on it and worked, hardly but worked. Don't do that if you do not know how to do it.

The best way to test it is to run it on a good PC with at least 8GB RAM. Yes, the LND node is quite hungry of resources, at least in the initial phase.

My suggestions to Shock Network devs:

put a warning to new users, that they need at least 8GB RAM where the Lightning Pub is running
make more visible the important mention: you do not need to run it behind Tor or open ports on your router. This option is damn good for all those bundle nodes runners (Umbrel, Start9, mynode etc) that have no idea about opening ports and what really is Tor.
For bundle nodes, if you implement Lightning Pub on them, make it visible that they DO NOT have to run any other LN node, just Lightning Pub. Not even a full Bitcoin node because is running with neutrino. So for the small RPi machines, is a win !
make it more clearly that this is a PRIVATE LN node and not a routing node. Many noobs still don't know the differences, but is better to inform them.
in the installation process, when all is done, it displays a npub admin string. Can you make it also to display a QR code with that? Usually you have to put that npub string into ShockWallet on mobile, meanwhile you are running it on a PC... so you will have to somehow copy paste that string from PC to mobile. Many noobs will find that challenging :) I know, is designed to open in a browser the my.shockwallet.app but also that is not mentioned in the final of installation. Make it easy for total noobs.
sometimes (idk the reason) in the installation process, the LND wallet doesn't start. So the npub is not displayed. But the lightning.pub is still running. Can you make or give to the user basic commands what to do to bring back to life the wallet and start the sync process then display the npub admin ? Or give instructions where to find that npub and connect it to shockwallet to see the node status. I had to restart the whole install process just for that.
can the user run his own nostr relay to manage the whole communication between his Lightning Pub node and Shockwallet? Right now is depending 100% of Shock Network relay. I understand that is for specific reasons, in this phase of development, but is that in plans to offer more liberty to a Lightning Pub runner? I know is not a big deal, in terms of privacy, but is more about not depending on a central point. Maybe you can give more details on this aspect.
the connecting to Shockwallet process, is not very clear for a noob. I tried this process with some total noobs, just to see how they are doing on their own. Is not very clear how to use that npub admin and how to backup, what to backup. The sign in 1st page is quite confusing.
In ShockWallet, when you try to show the seed of the node, is crashing, displaying an error that cannot communicate.
Running your own Lightning Pub is not very clear how to obtain a LN address, even that will be with a @shockwallet.app

I know is still early, I am just reporting some feedback. Maybe there are more things to report but for the moment these were the ones that I took notes and wanted you to know them. Sometimes devs have something different in mind and how the app works and cannot communicate well that "vision" to their users. I can see that is a powerful app, but is not showing very well its powerfulness in features.

I will keep testing it and watching its development and I hope this will help you to make a great wallet app that deserve to stay in users Bitcoin apps collection.

Thank you for attention in this matter

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206 sats \ 12 replies \ @Scoresby 2 Nov

This is a good set of suggestions. I was playing around with shock wallet last weekend, but didn't finish setting it up.

It really would have been handy to have a qr to transfer the npub between devices.

117 sats \ 10 replies \ @supratic 2 Nov

Shockwallet is great and easy to use with the bootstrap LND service offered by Lighting.pub. It's custodial service.

The most powerful and sovereign way to use ShockWallet is to install Lightning.pub in a Linux machine. This is the process Darthcoin is commenting on.

There's no issue on using Shockwallet app on mobile phones, is also available on the app stores and as apk. This is the easier and faster way to get a wallet setup. It's easily competing with rizful/w, coinos, alby and others ready-to-use kwc-free custodial wallets.

I find much more interesting the sovereign option, something that all other wallets mentioned before do not offer, for obvious reasons. A direct competitor could be Zeus that also offers both options to its users.

My suggestion is, if you have any machine running Linux, try to install Lightning.pub, it's one line cli command to have a lightning node up and running in less than two minutes:

wget -qO- https://deploy.lightning.pub | bash

@justin_shocknet the idea of providing a QR code at the end of the installation is a must. It would make life much easier. And also agree on creating some documentation with few basic cli commands to stop, restart and sync.

17 sats \ 8 replies \ @siggy47 20h

wget -qO- https://deploy.lightning.pub | bash

I keep getting

Failed to install Node.js.

java script isn't needed anyway, correct?

36 sats \ 5 replies \ @justin_shocknet 13h

What OS and hardware architecture? I'll try to reproduce

17 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 12h

I just confirmed it's 4GB Ubuntu 24.04.3 LTS Dell XPS 13/9360

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 12h

Interesting, I may ask you to fetch a log to help figure out where it's failing, will confirm the logging first though on my end

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 12h

Sure.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 13h

It's an old laptop running the latest Ubuntu? If you need more detailed info I'll check out the specs when I get home. I'm pretty sure it's 4GB ram.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 8h

I also install it on old PC from 2008, with a slow CPU and 4GB RAM. The only was that was slow in syncing and using it. Took 90% of resources, just LN Pub running. Was just testing to see how low I can go with PC specs.

53 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 18h

node.js is needed for the lightning.pub dashboard and some other things. Try again to run the installation script.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 18h

Thanks

207 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 2 Nov

exactly ! the easiness of installing it with just copy/paste that command is fantastic.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 2 Nov

The old Spark Wallet (CLN GUI intrerface) have that QR https://github.com/shesek/spark-wallet

people do not confuse this Spark with Lightspark / Spark from David Marcus

but didn't finish setting it up.

take notes for the whole process of testing and come back with your own critiques. I would want to hear them too. btw, try to see it from the perspective of a total noob, try to plasy dumb even that you know what are you doing.

300 sats \ 3 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2 Nov

Good stuff, keep the hits coming

I encourage anyone testing this stuff to repeat anything that might have been said already too, more signal the better

269 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2 Nov

Couple quick things about the current-state for folks reading this and planning to test:

8GB RAM

I'd like to ask more folks to report or deny issues in low RAM environments, in my testing everything has worked well in containers with as little as 1GB of RAM... 2GB burstable probably best though for the initial LND sync... 4GB has been ok with a full (headless) linux operating system such as a VPS

RAM speed is also a factor, 2GB of DDR4 is like 4GB of DDR3 and so on...

you do not need to run it behind Tor

Good call, it's biggest feature is that no networking setup is required at all since Nostr punches out. I actually recommend NOT using Tor ever, it'll just make your Lightning node unreliable.

this is a PRIVATE LN node and not a routing node

It can really be either, but yea optimizing for routing is a different game.

That said, if you run a pub with a bunch of high quality channels it will route as any other LND instance would (and the Pub dashboard hidden in ShockWallet for administrators helps provide a little insight into what is routing without the command line)

can the user run his own nostr relay

Yes, this option is currently done by the env (see readme on github if you're unsure what an env is), but the wizard for start9 etc will make it graphical

Running your own Lightning Pub is not very clear how to obtain a LN address

Will add some tool tips around this, but it's fully automated currently in the wallet

When you connect to any Pub, whether its ours or your own, the wallet takes the CLINK noffer and enrolls it at a LNURL bridge. This makes the Lightning Address trustless when a payer also supports CLINK since its using nostr for comms instead of the bridge serving any unverifiable invoice (NIP-05 serves the clink offer directly in that case, regular LNURL is still trusted since it has to be translated)

Bootstrap

Darth didn't mention this but I saw @k00b inquire about it on SNL

There's a trusted "custodial" credit mode for either Wallet or a Self-Hosted Pub:

If you use wallet in bootstrap mode it's using our Pub as a back-end, the next phase of this however is that when the balance is adequate the wallet will upgrade itself to a cloud node (or prompt you to connect your own) such that you can then invite your friends and family to it and get some ROI on hosting/channel costs.

With Lightning.Pub, bootstrap liquidity provider is enabled by default, but can be disabled via the env or in the forthcoming wizard.

This is similar to Phoenix's LSP service credits, the difference being is you're not locked in to us. You can re-point the liquidity provider to any other Lightning Pub, not just ours. This is currently modified via the env.

There's a roadmap for bootstrap to use Web-of-Trust to identify other Pub admins you know via Nostr and localize/decentralize any trust.

Our terms on bootstrap balances are that these are service credits consistent with CFPB guidance.

Automatic updates

If you've already set up a Pub and want to keep it updated with latest fixes, the same one-liner used to deploy it can be added to cron for unattended upgrades.

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 23h

I've seen new users "mistake"/misconception that they jump into installing Shock wallet and first thing is they use the boostrap / hosted node, maybe they don't even know / notice that you can run it with a full LND node behind.

Maybe you could make that difference more visible when a new user starts Shock wallet. I am not against using a hosted node, but this confusion can even be made by real BTC / LN devs trying first time this app. And then will tell BS lies online.

Think about Shinobi opening for the first time Shock wallet. He will say that "nah this is a garbage wrapped custodial wallet.. " or something like that, without even going deeper to see what really is. 😂😂😂

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 23h

Yea have noticed that as well, the latest screen update should be an improvement but making it low-friction for casuals yet intuitive for the node-curious is still a tough needle to thread.

@deSign_r has started helping us out too thankfully

Think about Shinobi opening for the first time Shock wallet

I've never given BM a single sat so i'm sure he'll trash it just to shill a scam instead no matter what I do 😂, he already trashes LV because apparently it should be YouTube or Rumble scale

276 sats \ 5 replies \ @deSign_r 2 Nov

Something like this should run on other OSs too! Just a concept idea to bring LN.pub to noobs, yes an app... Because most noobs don't know what the terminal is

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 2 Nov

hahaha nice psyop with the XP background ! Let's try one with Win 3.11

251 sats \ 1 reply \ @deSign_r 6h

When running it on win3 it provides the QR code to connect! @justin_shocknet must have updated the code already, or is that a bug?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 6h

buahahaha so cool!

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @deSign_r 7h

It's so lightweight it could run there too lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2 Nov

This looks fantastic!

117 sats \ 6 replies \ @nelom 2 Nov

After my testings, I did notice that the shockwallet address wasn't accepting zaps, my SN wallet profile showed and error, so i reverted back to my old Ln address.

I created a test note on Nostr with my npub for testing purposes, using my ShockWallet address in the profile, and Rizful took the opportunity to rub salt in the wound

It's early days and the vision of Justin's is promising, I'm sure he's pretty much doing all this on his own.

I've still got my app and bootstrapped node, I fully expect ShockWallet to go from strength to strength 💪

38 sats \ 0 replies \ @supratic 2 Nov

the message said it clearly "value must be between 10 and 31907946" (sats) and is totally understandable. SN had a similar issue when was custodial, I'd be curious to know how rizful fix the small-zaps issue.

Another fact to mention is that these free test rizful runs are really useful to improve the connectivity between different service providers. It's obvious they take the good opportunity to sell their service each time lol

38 sats \ 1 reply \ @rizful_com 2 Nov

Yeah, sorry about that. We could change the messaging. But then again, we're finding that users are often surprised that their lightning address won't accept 1 sat... on the other hand, there are likely good reasons that certain users or back-ends won't accept less than a certain number of sats per zap.

Note that you will only get a message like this ONCE, we will never attempt a test zap more than once on an address.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @nelom 2 Nov

Ye I looked at Rizful and have created a vault and have to say the UX is excellent, address customisation, multiple vaults, nwc. Very cool 😎

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 2 Nov

Yes, many times I tried to zap Justin on nostr and failed. I think is because of a huge lag between the machine where is running Lightning Pub --> Shocknet relay ---> nostr ---> zapper node.

Anyways, these Rizful testa are really good, helping LN address providers / users to find where it fails.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 2 Nov

Looks like this error is because the amount must have been below 10 sats... though I had gotten a similar message from Rizful in the past even when that wasn't the case, but it was only them... our lightning addresses work from every other service I know to test with

Zap receipts are flakey for sure, its a terrible protocol, will see what can be done about it

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @rizful_com 2 Nov

Yes. Sometimes zap receipts can fail... the tricky thing is figuring out WHY they fail....

38 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 2 Nov

I asked if this project is open source. Is it possible for others to do PRs and to help finish some of the things that been pending for quite some time?

I was really blown away how easy it was to setup a wallet and start making payments. Displaying a QR code for the nostr strip would be absolutely fantastic!

With a few improvements this Wallet can easily rival those like Phoenix and Wallet of Satoshi.

Developing deep documentation Iike Zeus Wallet can be very beneficial. That can help those looking for information about how to troubleshoot and have a deeper understanding of how this set up works. The help/about page is very light in information and details.

175 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 2 Nov

Shock Wallet repo - https://github.com/shocknet/wallet2 Lightning Pub repo - https://github.com/shocknet/Lightning.Pub

Developing deep documentation Iike Zeus Wallet can be very beneficial

I've contributed to that Zeus documentation after intense testing. Like Blixt docs too. I am planning to contribute also to Shock Wallet docs once I gather more testing and have a more finalized products. Keep in mind that ShockWallet also is linked to https://lightning,video wallet, and that is another amazing project.