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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 15h \ on: Vietnamese buyers queue for hours amid gold rush - VnExpress International econ
Many Asian nations at least have quite open and free gold markets- this keeps their often corrupt governments somewhat in check and limits the debasement that they can load upon citizens.
Recently in Thailand there have been queues to take out fiat from the bank and buy gold.
Banks have limited daily withdrawals of fiat.
Gold shops have had to delay delivery of the gold as demand is so high.
Gold and Bitcoin provide some healthy and much needed competition with fiat money.
Nothing stops this train.
Many Asian nations at least have quite open and free gold markets
Most western nations have it too. And for that matter, most Asian currencies are total trash, the only exception being the Singapore dollar. You can check their valuations over past 20 years, not against gold, but against developed world currencies (USD to GBP etc.)
One must be a moron to think that Asian nations somehow keep their debasement in check compared to western nations. They debase even faster, and people are dumber to realise it early enough.
Nothing stops this train.
That, I agree, except that most Asian nations (with their authoritarian cultures) lag much further in Bitcoin adoption too, easily evidenced if you look at BTC map. So don't expect that Bitcoin and Gold will somehow propel Asian currencies to get ahead of western currencies. All fiats will die, but fiats from shithole nations will die early.
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By open and free I mean they operate with high volumes and low margins and easy access. Here in New Zealand it is absurdly expensive to buy and sell the few exchanges charge a high margin. It may be different in US, Europe and maybe Aus?
My impression has been that western banks and governments generally put more regulation and obstruction and perhaps tax on gold trading thus reducing ease of access and market size, and keeping citizens more firmly corralled into the fiat trap. The classic and most blatant example being Order 6102! In contrast in much of Asia you can buy and sell gold with a tiny margin on sale and purchase prices.
Agree governments in Asia do not necessarily debase less than western nations, but at least if you can easily buy and sell gold it puts some check on how much governments can do this.
Agree many authoritarian Asian governments have been hugely resistant to Bitcoin adoption- despite huge inherent enthusiasm in the population- Thailand was leading global adoption but then the government there banned MoE use and clamped down on trading.
'All fiats will die' - I hope so but unless MoE utility improves vastly and current obstruction/absolute bans on MoE use are reduced/removed Bitcoin could remain largely cornered and neutered as a kyced taxed speculative commodity that leaves fiat still monopolising the crucial role of MoE.
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thus reducing ease of access and market size
Here, for your immediate reference. Buy all the gold you can afford, on your grocery trip.
And here, a random Costco store.
Want to buy Bitcoin? Go to Robosats, and you can find plenty of offers payable in USD. Pick a currency like GBP or EUR, you may see a few offers if you are lucky. Pick Asian currencies, you would be lucky to see a single bid or ask offer in a whole week. You can go experiment right now.
And then, plenty of KYC free Bitcoin ATMs across the continental US too.
So yeah, if you think somehow Asians are keeping their inflation in check and have more liquid markets (than the US, or general west) to trade Bitcoin or Gold...you have a loooong way to go.
Vietnam, on the other hand, is busy freezing bank account, same in Thailand as well.
Asian currencies may appear more stable sometime, because Asians are sheeps that tolerate anything, from CCP to the monarchs in Thailand. The US is more individualistic, and hence more people take defensive steps sooner.
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Yes it may just be here in New Zealand where its really hard and expensive to buy physical gold because there's only a few markets and you pay like 4% margin both ways resulting in very few people even buying or selling gold.
Still Order 6102 was pretty blatant shut down of peoples freedom of choice and was maintained for a long time.
Yes plenty of BTC ATM in US and Australia although not sure what margins they charge and apparently being clamped down on in Australia now under pretext of AML. Theres some here in NZ too but very high margins and they all appear to have KYC.
I still suspect that in Asia there is more of a tradition of people holding gold rather than money in the bank giving them some insulation from government debasement of the currency but you are right the banks in Thailand and Vietnam are seeming to be trying to limit peoples exodus from fiat to gold at the moment- it will just make the people want to buy gold (or bitcoin) more!
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Order 6102 took gold from the banks, not from peoples' home.
In Asia, the tradition is there to some extent, yes, but the market liquidity is not necessarily better than the US. Americans are catching up to gold as well, and one of the biggest market of Swiss refineries. Their eagle coin is a recognised all across the world as one of the most liquid forms of gold. States like Florida and Utah are recognising gold as a legal tender.
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I thought Order 6102 banned all private custody of gold (except personal jewelry) and yes a lot was seized easily because the banks already custodied a lot of peoples gold and so handed it over to the government while if you had gold bars under the floor boards the government still demanded you hand them in or else you were breaking the law to hold gold...ie private custody sale and purchase of gold (as a SoV investment) was banned until 1971?
Yes seems like US nowadays has fairly good gold markets (what is the buy sell margin? ) compared to here in New Zealand. Not sure about Europe maybe they are more like NZ and its highly taxed/'discouraged'?
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