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0 sats \ 23 replies \ @028559d218 OP 8 Sep \ parent \ on: Knots doesn't make any sense to me bitcoin
What do you mean???
Eh... I said that in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way.
Banks/governments are worried about Bitcoin being used as money. But they are not worried about it being "digital gold". If it doesn't threaten their money-printing monopoly, then they don't care.
So, they made sure it would remain "an investment", not a currency. Roger Ver attempts to lay it all out in his book here:
But his book is full of misunderstandings, conjectures, non sequiturs, and conspiracy theories. I don't think he even knows exactly how Bitcoin was "hijacked". But I agree with him that it probably was....
I just can't put my finger on how. But I can see the signs that it did happen:
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Conspiracy theories from Ver aren't required to explain this phenomenon.
Welcome to "mass adoption".
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Eh.... I hang out with a ton of intelligent "Bitcoiners" who really understand this from a multidisciplinary vantage point. They are Bitcoiners.
They are usually the first ones to tell me,
- "Store of value comes first, medium of exchanges will come much later."
- "Spend the weak currency first, hold the hard money."
- "I don't want to have to pay a capital gains tax every time I buy a cup of coffee!"
At meetups/conferences, their conversation centers around fiat-minded macro-economics and fiat price catalysts for Bitcoin. Few are interested in building new Bitcoin circular economies or escaping the fiat system in a meaningful way.
Even here on SN, my rants about this topic are usually viewed as annoying and whiny.
Where are the Bitcoiners?
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Of course, and that wasn't what I was pointing out. What I'm pointing out is that there's Bitcoiners, and there's another group of people at the bottom half of your meme that do not really share the same values, and the group was named differently too in the meme. If it would have said "Bitcoiners today", I could have replied with the same conclusion; but there are still many Bitcoiners and you'll find them here on SN, every day.
It's just not an apples-to-apples comparison: the 2013 class still exists. I know, because I am 2013 class.
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I'd like to ask this... and get a no-BS honest answer.
Where did the cypherpunk people go? Are they just "here" as in on Stacker News?
Did they go to another cryptocurrency? (XMR or something?) Or were there just not that many of them to begin with? Or some left the movement completely?
Nostr doesn't feel cypherpunk to me it feels like marketing. Maybe parts of are punk but it's such an incredibly small community it's a razor-thin area within a subculture.
This doesn't feel like 'adoption' it feels like cope... the dissonance between 'bitcoin is money' and 1 sat/vbyte in my opinion isn't healthy. Thanks
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Same here, brother.
My Bitcoin transaction history is more robust than my fiat one. But we can't do this forever alone. We need Bitcoiners to start caring about the end of the dollar.... we need a network effect for medium-of-exchange. If there are only 2 of us for every 2 Million fiat-brains, then we won't survive. We will die out.
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My exact same thoughts and same experience.
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Counterparties...
Lol.
I have to travel LONG distances to find anywhere to spend Bitcoin and the merchants I talk to? Maybe 1-2 times a month they have someone who wants to "pay in Bitcoin."
And that's in Bitcoin-centric cities within countries.
In the States the vast majority of the merchants I've spoken with "don't take it anymore" because noone showed up.
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If Bitcoin is to become a "medium of exchange" we have to use it, right?
What good is the HODL forever, never touch your bitcoin, put it in a shoebox forever never do anything with it mentality?
I don't know any Bitcoiners in person... and the concept of "spending Bitcoin" is a totally alien concept to 99% of the people I've dealt with.
There's no shortage of BS-people and suitcoiners and degens and "crypto-traders" but there are very few real Bitcoiners using their Bitcoin.
Lighting actually works... really well. I don't know why more people aren't using it, and using it transactionally in lots of places.
I have bought burgers and shakes, some wine, books, a gift card... stuff like that and everything was instantaneous and cheap.
Meanwhile the mempool is full of... 1 sat/vbyte apathy. I don't get it. If it's 'so great' and 'such money' 'so powerful' then...
People should be tripping over themselves to spend it and use it right?
I don't know where Ver gets his "transactions are too expensive, too slow" explanation. Blockchains don't scale and so layering is required which is what lightning does.
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I completely agree. And I think Ver is wrong.
The issue I have is more a cultural one than a technical one.
Take the Simply Bitcoin company as an example. I have been to multiple events with those dudes. They talk such shit about fiat, but they quickly pull out their fiat debit card when it comes time to pay the tab at the bar. They don't flinch, they don't actually care about not using slave money..... even though that's the talking point that is paying their bills.
Contrast that to what @btcisla is doing with her YouTube channel where she did a 21-day Bitcoin ONLY challenge. Sure, that was just a stunt for views/likes. But she clearly has a real passion to use Bitcoin for more than SoV and to stop using fiat as much as possible. She'll spend fiat, but she cringes when she has to.
Imagine if EVERY Bitcoiner in the USA did a 21-day Bitcoin ONLY challenge. It would change everything. It would have a huge impact on the economy for those 21 days, and merchants would adapt quick. Politicians would have to change their approach to things like capital-gains taxes on Bitcoin or they'd be voted out in no time.
There are A LOT of Bitcoiners in the USA.... enough to make a serious impact if they actually coordinated an attack on fiat, instead of simping for the Fed and JPMorgan.
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Imagine if EVERY Bitcoiner in the USA did a 21-day Bitcoin ONLY challenge. It would change everything. It would have a huge impact on the economy for those 21 days, and merchants would adapt quick. Politicians would have to change their approach to things like capital-gains taxes on Bitcoin or they'd be voted out in no time.
I agree 100%. Talk is cheap. Where are the people spending???
I understand that this process won't be overnight... but frankly all the "monetary-maxi" people talk about is.... talk.
They don't act. Monetary maxi people on social media talk a great game about "bitcoin the money" etc but are they spending? My experience suggests very few of them.
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Yup.
I know, there is more friction right now to spend Bitcoin than fiat.
But damn.... the USA had to fight for its independence from England because of "taxation without representation" (i.e. FIAT MONEY). They coordinated and died for it. And most of the population of the colonies were against independence. A small 10-20% were enough to make the change happen without the help of the majority.
Bitcoiners today are even greater in number.... but seem to be un-willing to fight a similar war. To me, it's shameful.
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