Is college (university) still worth it in the era of AI? \ stacker news ~AskSN

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Is college (university) still worth it in the era of AI?

954 sats \ 45 comments \ @stack_harder 2 Sep AskSN

Sure, maybe for things like medicine and some other professions, but other than that, in this day and age with all the ways to learn and white collar workers under threat from AI, is the juice really worth the squeeze for most?

I don't think the golden path of going to college and get a higher-paying job really works anymore.

To be fair, I am a bit biased. Back when I was thinking about going to college (uni in England) to study Russian, I thought fuck it, i'll keep teaching myself, save money, and go to Russia instead. Whenever I'd meet the students there on their year abroad, I was always amazed at how shit they were at speaking, even from Ivy leagues.

what do you stackers think?

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214 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 2 Sep

I don't think AI is a big factor in this. I mean, it is a factor but the general idea that everyone should go to a 4 year university has been flawed for decades. It depends as do most things.

Education / Knowledge has value but its not all the same value and there are many ways to acquire it.
Certification or signals have value. This is the last part keeping people going to college. Companies still use the degree as a signal. This is declining though due to the fact that everyone is pushed to have it.
Opportunity cost is real. If you can gain the paper in less time you are gonna be ahead of others and start sooner. Systems that realize this will beat those that don't.
Cost is a huge factor. The cost of college has risen sharply. The more government backed loans have become common the higher the costs have become. Fiat does this.

We are watching the existing system fall apart. Its not gonna die completely but its going to have to change. It just doesn't work for everyone. It never did.

I have a degree. It helped. Not the education. I have learned far more on my own for far less money. The paper opened a few doors. I'm pretty sure I could have been successful without it though.

Knowing what I know we set up my sons to earn college credit for free in High School. Then they have worked toward 2 year degrees in community college largely online while working jobs. If they decide to do so they can continue to a four year degree which is a much higher price tag. I suspect they won't need to do this though.

If they wanted to be doctors or lawyers or some other gate kept thing they'd have to jump through the hoops. I think parents have to think about these things critically. I have very very negative thoughts about public education and we largely avoided it with our family. But I don't believe in cutting off my nose to spite my face. I believe in being smart and adapting.

Start with what you want your life to be. Design your life. Don't be passive. Don't resign yourself to some pre-filled life path. I see so many people doing this. Its sad. Don't go into massive debt sending your kids to a 4 year university when they have no clue what they want to do. Let them try things. Get them working as soon as you can. Even if it is for you and for no money. Many of us don't know we love or hate things until we try them. Don't let the system decide for your family.

32 sats \ 6 replies \ @cryotosensei 2 Sep

Well I appreciated the intellectual freedom and headspace some semesters of college afforded me, so I wouldn’t want to deny others this opportunity. My last semester was among the happiest times of my life. I was writing my thesis on the hearing children of deaf people (I was into sign language then); I was learning Japanese for fun; and I was co-leading a college group to serve a rural community in Thailand. Good times.

24 sats \ 4 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Sep

sounds like a sweet deal. what were the fees like?

14 sats \ 3 replies \ @cryotosensei 3 Sep

Cost $5.5k per year during my time. I did get a full scholarship, so my parents paid zilch haha

24 sats \ 2 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Sep

nice, pretty cheap really, i was paying that for my kids school basically!

i think if you can get away without the debt burden, it changes the equation a lot

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 3 Sep

Woah! Are school fees in Bulgaria so prohibitive? Did you have to choose an international school?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Sep

This was a private school , but we're moving to a state one now since it's too far, price going up again and the education quality is nothing special.

state schools are free though, so all good

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Sep

I think college is worth it for people who have this attitude: people who would actually enjoy writing a thesis, learning a new language, learning new skills...

If you don't enjoy those things and you're just being forced to because you're told that's how to make money, I think you'd be miserable. If college is just about money, you may actually find it a better choice to learn a craft. In the US at least, skilled craftsmen can get paid quite well

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @bounty_hunter 2 Sep

General Wellington said The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton.

And Director Aaron Sorkin implied The facebook social network was coded during fraternity rush week.

What I recall most positively about college was the gentle and most open-ended call to develop agency. It was a world where you could, indeed, just do things. Spend $190 on throwing a party and try to feed yourself for the rest of the week on $10. Sleep fourteen hours. Sleep zero hours. Burn out on cheap weed, or wage-max with three part time jobs.

The credits, the grades, your major and minor gave the adults a rationalization for what you were doing. But really you were like kids playing house or dress up. There was a vague recognition that your were in a temporary developmental stage, but what you could become was an open path that wasn't just decided by "the system" anymore, that you could have a say in.

I think these increasingly common cases of 18 year olds foregoing college to do a "tech startup" are going into the one of the harshest agency training programs - a triple black diamon if you will - and are likely to emerge more jaded, more cynical, and less filled with hope than they could have if they tried a few years on the bunny hill first.

Just as General Wellington credited his officers discipline and teamwork inclulcated at college as the deciding factor in his military success, I think a generally whimsical and agentic nature is the critical ingredient which powers much of today's success in innovation. I think this will be difficult to create outside the dorms for now.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @2053456d48 3 Sep

I think AI have it's own place and it would be better not to replace any university in comparison to AI.

I do agree university and college degrees might not help each and everyone in getting the dream jobs. But university must have it's own place and we should come together and preserve our educational institutions as it's the only place, where one can have better life experience as well as learn social ethics and building real connections with other humans. Which I believe no AI can provide such real life experience in comparison.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Sep

the only place where one can have better life experience as well as learn social ethics and building real connections with other humans.

I would say that, while ai doesnt recreate this, you can get all these things out of college, you can connect with humans anywhere, from school to travel and ethics is learned from childhood, i sure wouldnt want the state to be in charge of that !

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jbschirtzinger 2 Sep

it wasn't worth it before AI. It's been in a bubble for years.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fenix 2 Sep

This question has been asked long before AI because in every era, we have different reasons for considering formal education useless. Hence the examples of millionaires who never studied and became successful, for example. However, this doesn't demonstrate the large number of people who work in these companies and who needed education and experience to keep their businesses afloat.

Now regarding AI, I see no merit in those who use it and put their own name on the results. They didn't create it, the work didn't emerge from their minds, it was the AI's. And I have to say that I'm not at all pleased to see schools embracing AI in their educational processes. I think that at some point, this decision toward idiocracy will lead to a resurgence in the valorization of independent and legitimate work. In fact, I already see this and demand it myself.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @guerratotal 2 Sep

University has always been a "vocation." Not everyone has that calling to go to university and study. I've met people in big business, millionaires, and they never set foot in college.

The big problem is that we've been taught that to be successful in life, you have to go to university.

I went to university, studied to be a math and physics teacher, and in the end, I'm not doing any of the things I studied. But I won't deny that it was a good time, and I learned the habits of studying and searching for information, etc., there. But I didn't really have that calling; I just went because it was what "had to be done at the time."

What I am now, I don't owe to university, but to being self-taught and learning on my own.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jaspervanderee 2 Sep

Like Jeff Booth says, information is free. The current school system is based on an old system teaching factory workers how to follow instructions. The future will reward those who provide value to society from an entrepreneurial endeavour instead of employment.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @billytheked 2 Sep

ok Red

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @HardMoney 2 Sep

I think the experience of college can be worthwhile but the credential and education can be obtained by self learning online.

With tuition costs where they are however it’s hard to find value there. If tuition was 20k for a degree I think it’s an interesting proposition and good life experience. When it’s 100k + it’s setting someone up for debt slavery

Hopefully the disruption forces tuition costs down but that’s hard to imagine with recent trends

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @didiplaywell 2 Sep

Let alone AI, College hasn't been worth it ever since youtube.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @zuspotirko 2 Sep

Disagree. I can tell the difference between coworkers who went to college and those who didn't (and good universities vs mediocre colleges too). In the way how structured their work is, how structured they write. It just isn't the same - no matter how much the blue collars cope and seethe.

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Sep

A question you should ask is how much of that is just due to their own intellectual ability versus the doing of the colleges.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @zuspotirko 2 Sep

Doesn't matter. I don't have the time for vetting people, I need good rules of thumbs for which candidates deserve a closer look. Being classist about socioeconomic background would be a useful rule of thumb. Credentialism is a better rule of thumb. We still make exceptions ofc.

And that isn't just me. The entire white collar world works like that.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Sep

It matters because it means that going to college while having low intellectual ability may not be a good idea.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @didiplaywell 2 Sep

I can't argue against your local statistics if they work locally for you. But you must understand that that's your local sample. In my experience it doesn't matter at all, and the fact I know it's perfectly possible to prescind from a college degree entirely to be perfectly knowledgeable, competent and productive on a certain field (engineering at least, as per my sample), is enough of a proof (at least for that field), as this is provable by counter-example. I have college education, so I know from first hand experience that the quality of the material available on the internet is vastly superior to anything college can ever give you. In fact I realized after the fact that I wasted my time, I shouldn't have pursued a college degree on engineering, I should have learned from the internet directly.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @zuspotirko 3 Sep

I can't argue against your local statistics if they work locally for you. But you must understand that that's your local sample.

But it isn't. It's not an anecdote. The whole white collar world runs on credentialism because it just really is the best rule of thumb there is. Nobody has time to sift through a thousand applicants to find the few good self-taught people.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @didiplaywell 3 Sep

Last time I checked to get a job you would be asked for your work experience so... yea...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 2 Sep

There may still be some that are worth it.

Check out this convocation address, for the entering class of 2029 at UATX

https://uatx.substack.com/p/in-defense-of-inequality/comments

0 sats \ 18 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

College, at least in America, hasn’t been worth it for most students for a long time. Hence declining enrollments.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 2 Sep

The question is too broad IMO. One can't say it is worth it for the youth. It never has been a boolean and the idea that it ever was is one reason its collapsing.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 2 Sep

When I worked in education my boss used to rant about how the system in California was designed many years ago. It kinda made sense.

UC system was for the intellectual class - IE, not practical.
California State System - More practical / Career oriented
Community college - skilled trades and things like that. More for the masses.

What do we have now? The UC and CS Uoverlap a lot more and most kids really wanna get into a UC over a CS. The UC and CSU are more alike than different. Community colleges are all about funneling kids into the two systems.

She really hated how it morphed over time. She hated how every kid is pushed into the system and discouraged from skilled trades. Over the past 20 years I think skilled trades have made a comeback to some extent but its not nearly enough. Its gonna take a cultural shift before it gets aligned.

42 sats \ 15 replies \ @Scoresby 2 Sep

How are you thinking about talking to your children about college/university?

(Understanding it may still be a ways off)

158 sats \ 1 reply \ @398ja 2 Sep

My philosophy is that early age education (formal ed. in school setting or/and at home) trumps university education. By far. This is why I send my little one to a Montessori school. It's not cheap, but it's definitely worth it, in my opinion.

I'd rather spend $$$ on a Montessori school than take a loan for a university degree, especially in this AI era. Very bad deal, imo.

He's convinced he'll become a professional football player at 16, and therefore won't need to go to university anyway, which he thinks it's a waste of time anyway (I think he's picked that up from reading the Tuttle twins books 😅)...

But tbh, when the time comes, we'll evaluate the options and decide

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Sep

big fan of the Tuttle twins also lol

144 sats \ 8 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Sep

I think it's still worth it, but only for certain majors. And you can't just go to college with a passive attitude and expect the degree alone to open doors for you. It's better to think of college as being part of a startup incubator... you're immersing yourself in an environment of people with bright ideas and a desire to execute... but you still have to put in the work and be proactive about yourself.

30 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

I should have put “worth it” in quotes because I was only talking about financial returns. There are lots of non monetary returns to college.

Also, to your point, there’s potential for gains but students have to take it upon themselves to realize those.

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Sep

the network effect is real, i suppose. a girl i knew who graduated Stanford was getting constant offers to join this or that start-up being set up by her friends, and was able to network at embassy parties and things.

165 sats \ 5 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Sep

Whenever I heard people complain about college I always just want to ask: how did you spend your time in college, and what courses did you take, and how did you decide on those courses, and what extracurricular activities did you involve yourself in?

72 sats \ 4 replies \ @Scoresby 2 Sep

This is a great point. I spent almost all my time reading and writing. I took English courses, deciding on them in a fairly naive way (I want to be a writer, therefore I will be an English major), and my extracurriculars were mostly centered around writing...and I do feel like I could have made much better use of my college years.

42 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Sep

So you didn't feel like it was a good use of time? Were you able to translate your college experience into your goals with regard to writing?

84 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby 2 Sep

No. I would have been far better off trying to build a company or working construction for a few years. The reading and writing could have been done while doing those things, and they have the advantage of not feeling like artificial life.

On the other hand, I met my wife in college. And that has certainly been a major benefit to my life.

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32 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

If my daughter wants to go to college, we’ll certainly help her do so.

Before we get to that point, I’m going to try to make her more aware of her options than I was.

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby 2 Sep

I’m going to try to make her more aware of her options than I was.

I'm hoping to do the same for my children. But I fear that my sense of "options" is smaller than it should be.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 2 Sep

Here's some options you may not have considered:

#404270

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Sep

No doubt that’s true.

I think you’re on the right track with teaching your kids how to monetize their skills.