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71 sats \ 31 replies \ @BrandonNakamoto OP 4 Jan 2023 \ parent \ on: LNURL deposits coming to Muun Wallet soon! bitcoin
Correct, it is a Bitcoin AND a lightning wallet.
It is an on-chain wallet that does LN swaps which is different from being an LN wallet.
I think its important not to abstract what these things are and instead be very clear, verbose, and upfront on what these things are so that users aren't surprised or find some downfall with a certain way of doing things as being representative of the entire technology. For example, thinking that on-chain fees are actually LN fees.
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Yes.
This is shit, up with which, I will not put.
Fix it. Be honest.
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While i agree, I for one still use it for both.
Mainly so i can buy non-KYC on-chain, send to Muun and from there either send to cold storage or use lightning daily.
For that reason, it suits me just fine as i only keep a small stack in Muun.
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If you accept risk/the downsides of the model you're using that's one thing and perfectly fine. The issue I'm taking is calling it a lightning wallet. Its a wallet, but its not a lightning wallet.
If you understand what you're using and you accept what you're using, you are empowered, if instead you're using something without understanding what it is, without being able to accept the risks/downsides without knowing that the thing you're using is not what it claims to be, then you are not empowered, you've been scammed.
I feel that muun has scammed people by claiming to be a lightning wallet, rather than being honest enough to empower users to fully understand what they are interfacing with.
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I just check the muun.com and I didnt see they claim to be lightning wallet.
but question for you, is WoS a lightning wallet?
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Muun doesn't claim to be a lightning wallet? Who are these people who claimed it on their behalf then? What the heck happened in between? How did we fuck up our messaging, our explaination to newbies about what muun is so badly that we now have users who are jaded about the "failed lightning network" and Bitcoin because "lightning doesn't work, the fees are just as bad as using on-chain"?
No. Wallet of Satoshi is an account. There is the argument that its okay to use an account for such small amounts of money and if you're accepting that risk then very well, you are empowered.
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Wallet of satoshi claim to be a bitcoin lightning wallet right on the first message of their website.
Muun claims to be a self custody wallet for bitcoin and lightning.
I'm not sure where you are getting the information. but just reading each website, you should figure out who is the scammer.
Just saying...
my personal opinion, I don't think WoS or Muun are scammers, but I prefer a self custody over an "account".
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Under the FAQ, under "What is Wallet of Satoshi?"
"It is a zero-configuration custodial wallet"
Custodial = an account
Wallet = You own and control your Bitcoin
You do not control your Bitcoin in an account.
Its the same psyop as "Unhosted wallets" Its either a wallet, or an account. A hosted wallet is an oxymoron.
Muun: "self custody wallet for bitcoin and lightning"
Probably should be:
"Self-custody wallet facilitating Lightning swaps".
You don't self-custody a lightning channel with muun, you can not force close channels and most importantly in my view, people are conflating this with being representative of what its like to use the lightning network.
I'm serious about this. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/zxee9g/comment/j1zrneo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Bitcoin sucks What wallet did you use? Curious Muun
Also even for on-chain custody muun is really out of spec with their seed phrases and things....but that's just a weird quirk I wanted to point out.
The people of El Salvador think their Chivo account is Bitcoin and because Chivo sucks, they think Bitcoin sucks.
There's just a lot of really bad problems that have occured due to an attempt to abstract away what should never have been abstracted away.
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For the most part all lightning wallets are going to be custodial.
Only maxis with enough money to build a reliable lightning node with decent liquidity will have true on-chain and lightning self custody control of their sats.
IMO Muun is simply providing an easy way to move your self custodial sats (on chain) over to the lightning network.
Wallet or not, lightning is always going to be custodial so the difference (and risk) in using a dedicated lightning wallet over Muun is minimal.
If you are happy with the opinion of one guy in reddit and is enough for you, that's fine for me.
I don't think there is point to keep arguing, muun will be there, jack mallers and dorsey and other big names will keep using it and there is nothing we can do about it.
This
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Part of the issue with Muun for me, other than the wording of their documentation, is that it may work “fine” right now (though fees can eat away a chunk of your transaction) anytime the network gets busy, those fees will increase and take even more out of what is expected to be a lightning transaction.
At the very least, that hurts UX.
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