Can nostr scale to 1 billion users? \ stacker news ~nostr

1009 sats \ 15 comments \ @taxd 3 Jan 2023 nostr

I have read that it is hard to route in mesh-based networks and the problem is maybe even NP-hard. Maybe a hierarchical structure will come (organically). Are there other problems, such as vulnerability to dDOS-attacks? Can POW and or certificates be introduced to solve possible spam and dDOS problems? Any possible show-stoppers?

If I get positive answers to these worries I will sleep better. Which is good for everyone.

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319 sats \ 8 replies \ @om 3 Jan 2023

it is hard to route in mesh-based networks

Nostr isn't a mesh-based network.

Can POW and or certificates be introduced to solve possible spam and dDOS problems?

You can just pay a relay via LN. In the end it's also PoW.

241 sats \ 5 replies \ @Eximpius 3 Jan 2023

Yep, a "Mesh" implies the relays talk to each other. They Don't

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @taxd OP 3 Jan 2023

I can still imagine that "routing" or finding a certain client might become difficult if the number of relays and clients is large.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @supertestnet_phone 3 Jan 2023

Nah, it happens organically. If you're looking for someone even semi famous, people you know can tell you one of the relays they use, because they will be widely followed. Everyone else is someone you want to follow because you met them in person, where you can ask them to tell you one of the relays they use, at the same time as you ask them for their username.

253 sats \ 0 replies \ @super_testnet 3 Jan 2023

I didn't realize when I wrote the above reply that Nip35 assists with user discovery by advising nip5 username servers to specify a relay for each user: https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/35.md

That way someone can tell you "I'm so-and-so @example.com" and when you type that into your client, it can automatically look up what relays they use.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Eximpius 3 Jan 2023

That has nothing to do with the protocol itself. It is not a mesh network lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eximpius 3 Jan 2023

nvm, my bad. I thought you were replying to me

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @trent 4 Jan 2023

It’s easy to imagine new services being developed to sit between relays to deduplicate content or otherwise optimize, or (even more likely) relays that are also clients of other relays for the same purpose. Either way I think it’s fair to say that a partial mesh or inter relay routing is necessary for nostr to scale to 1B, but maybe 1B is not necessary. Could be that smaller communities like an enterprise whose relay is behind a VPN, or topics/community-based relays will be the final form

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @zuspotirko 3 Jan 2023

And even if it was ... Facebook and the internet and Tor and "6 degrees of kevin bacon" have proven that almost everything is 6 or 7 hops away in a mesh.

287 sats \ 2 replies \ @pi 3 Jan 2023

NIP 13 introduces the PoW, as a means of spam deterrence.

https://github.com/nostr-protocol/nips/blob/master/13.md

There's another nip (not yet published) that will introduce reputation.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cigarette 3 Jan 2023

This is EXACTLY what nostr needs

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @pi 3 Jan 2023

Yeah, I'm very excited about reputation. It will catapult the protocol to another level.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @satoshe 4 Jan 2023

Yes, it can scale to 1 billion users. No, not everyone will see all the same notes/posts.

Nostr is not a consensus protocol. Not everyone has to agree on everything or see every post.

Nostr is a decentralized and localized protocol. There is no front page of nostr because you only see posts from relays you’re connected to.

Just like villages on earth, relays on nostr connect local communities.

If the relay is beefy enough, it can support as many users as it needs

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fred 4 Jan 2023

Yes but they will have to work on the UI & UX because it's very confusing for a non tech savvy user

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rijndael 4 Jan 2023

There is no routing