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11 sats \ 17 replies \ @kepford 14 Aug \ parent \ on: Zelle Sued Over Security Problems tech
I'm not Catholic and I'm not here to defend them but the reality is that the church is basically a private governance body. They aren't a state but they do have a privately run society with sovereignty. And while they have a lot of money it is dwarfed by most states.
I would push back on the "contradictory to the teachings of Jesus" part there. Not sure what you mean by that. Maybe I agree with you but I'm not sure what you mean. The fact the church has a lot of resources isn't in and of itself contrary to me. The more fair question would be are they being good stewards of those resources. @Car might have more thoughts on this.
My point was more along the lines of street level real world morals. Like can you leave your doors unlocked. Can we trust our neighbors. Not am I personally in agreement with how they steward their money. I think you could pick any place in history and find fault there. But I remember society being much more trusting in my youth vs. today. Even just basic decency has declined. I'm not trying to pretend like there was this time where everyone was moral but I think a strong case can be made that we have seen a sharp decline in this area.
On a related note, I very much enjoyed reading How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.
I have heard so much criticism of the Roman Catholic Church over the years. It has many flaws and has committed many wrongs. The vast majority I learned in this book I had never heard and I'm a Christian. That is just a shame. Christians broadly have done many terrible things throughout history but with all that still in mind I believe that the mark of Jesus left and what has been done by imperfect followers of Him has made the world much better than most people in society realize. That includes Christians who are ignorant of their own history. We (Christians) have allowed our minds to be shaped by the culture around us more than by the Church and the Bible. This is something that has troubled me for decades but recently I've realized it is much deeper. We know more about secular history of politics than we do our own fathers in the faith. Its a shame and a huge reason for many problems and divisions in the Church.
@Car I think you would enjoy this book :)
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Bout to add it to my reading list thank you.
Currently reading the Bible now I must say I have learned much more about God and Jesus than the many years I went attending church.
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Yeah, reading for ones self is the way.
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And churches are full of humans. Humans with many flaws. None of us are perfect. I have found that most people that reject the faith do so because of people. It's a mistake but believe me, I get it. Broken people can hurt people.
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Very true statements indeed
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I believe each Parish manages their own funds to my knowledge, and they are transparent with the budget if you ask, some even have it on their website.
I am not exactly sure how the Vatican works its budget, but if you go to your local Parish and ask they will have answers for these questions or point you to your local Bishop.
I have asked my Parish about other such things in the past not related to money and they have always been open and honest about things. From what I have been told from the brotherhood the Church has gone through changes after the 80's and 90's. So I think I just got a different experience than others older than me coming through the Church.
But everyones experience is different.
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Right on @Car. Amazing how few people ask questions of leadership. I have done the same with my church and when I have concerns I go to my pastor and elders and they always are open to my concerns. I'd say if more people would show that they care we'd see far less sin and corruption in church leadership. The enemy is always trying to destroy those in church leadership through temptation. The church needs our prayer and support. But Jesus said it would not fail so in this end we can have faith that it will stand.
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But the diocese has the final say. A long standing church in my hometown was closed due to the settlement the Catholic Church has to pay due to the scandal. So my views about money and religion are completely biased.
So while each parish manages their own funds it is still up to the diocese and the Bishop to determine which churches stay open and which ones close
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I think you mean they are selectively transparent.
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I always like to compare churches to the state. I have never been a part of a church that was less transparent than all governments. Critics of the church like to apply criticism they do not apply to any other organization.
Now in truth they should be above all others and above reproach. Sadly that is rarely the case. But the groups responsible for the most death and destruction in society are states. Not the church.
We are the church and believe me I have a mound of criticism for the people in all churches. I blame the church for most of this problems we see today. The church has retreated. Christians have placed the state above the church. If we cast down that idol I believe we'd see an amazing transformation.
I gotta admit, I wasn't expecting a Vatican convo on this post.
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