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while many of us are concerned with financial legacy and the amassing of monetary wealth (be it in the form of liberty or actual material wealth), i would argue that the cultural legacy of bitcoiners up to the present block (902948), also, will echo throughout the future generations--for better or for worse. and while i don't purport to put financial and cultural legacy at odds with each other, i think it is worthwhile, at least, to consider the cultural import of bitcoiners today alongside the economic, intellectual and philosophical; nor do i wish to split hairs and attempt to take these apart from the idea of 'culture' more broadly. therefore, when speaking of culture, i am thinking about three things primarily: (1) popular narratives, (2) artistic contributions and (3) the way and manner in which people interact in-person and online.
in short, i am arguing that the culture seen online from bitcoiners is generally deficient (as, i think, are most cultures) and risks being remembered as such because it appears as (a) disingenuous or (b) self-referential, at least in the mainstream. bitcoiners concerned about cultural legacy should focus on continuing to memorialize the more niche, freedom-focused and tech-focused elements of bitcoin, in ways that outlast the 24h news cycle. my suggestion is that the felt cultural impact of community building and family values will long outlast the virtue-signalling, pseudo-culture that predominates in the more visible online spaces.
here are my personal observations, regarding these three categories, according to what is more visible versus what is the felt experience as a bitcoiner. In other words, i will attempt to look at the three categories from an exogenous and endogenous point of view, respectively.
(1) popular narratives
  • visible: saylor/trump-isms seem to dominate in non-bitcoiner realms, which might appear (whether it is true or not) from the outside as stealthy state propaganda disguised as counterculture. financial circles (as @denlillaapan does a good job writing about) are slowly coming around and, i fear, are quickly financializing/engineering in ways that fiat-ishize bitcoin. while i don't believe this renders the technology any less useful, again, these financial products certainly appear to be infiltration of the culture and values that carried bitcoiners this far.
  • felt: none of these financial products really adds to the felt experience of the people using them in any meaningful way--there was nothing culturally hearty about the shitcoin tokenomic hype-cycle of 2017 (and i'm open to evidence to the contrary), and so the bitcoin-treasury hype-cycle most likely will prove to be virtue signalling noise without much long-standing cultural impact.
(2) artistic contributions
  • visible: bitcoin art exists but often appears as very uninteresting from the outside since it is usually based on an ideological premise, i.e. 'bitcoin is liberty' or 'satoshi as savior,' which contradicts the poplar narratives (above). memes and podcasts might occupy this second category, since there is arguably some aesthetic decision-making in these, and i suspect in many cases these seem to be made more for the bag pumping and bitcoin-evangelism than the actual procurement of good art.
  • felt: a closer inspection of many such creations show genuine appreciation of the finer, felt elements that make bitcoin wonderful. those that focus on the proliferation of freedom of thought, the challenging of conventional explanations of finance and the exploration of new and compelling technologies in service of those ideals. shout outs to those like @plebpoet and madex whose creations make bitcoin culture feel worth showing up for. i hope these artists penetrate into the mainstream without compromising their authenticity
(3) human (inter)action
  • visible: the most compelling category, to me, of the visible elements of bitcoin culture are the meetups. the communicative and interactive patterns, discourses and partnerships forged at meetups and conferences, no matter what their size is, are captivating to people especially in an our increasingly information-based lives. also compelling is focus on education there and in countless online blogs, presentations, tutorials, podcasts and forum spaces, especially wrt narratives that challenge the status-quo and freedom-technology. these, to me, are the bastion of resistance, especially in the visible, marketing elements of bitcoin.
  • felt: bitcoiners tend to have stronger family values because of their low-time preference. i would suspect that the proliferation of bitcoin circular economies make for more localized, small-business focused and high-trust communities, although the empirical evidence for this is not readily available. the fact that bitcoin is able to minimize trust in financial transactions incidentally enables communities to interact in a higher-trust capacity. communities, families and individuals all come in alignment with common principles and goals.
so what can be done and how can the grain be separated from the chaff in terms of the visible, virtue signaling diverge and the felt experience? what are the cultural artifacts of today that will be memorable to our posterity?
in closing, i truly believe that culture, in general, is deficient nowadays because most of the informational artifacts we consume are extremely fleeting and temporary. it is not that only rich and powerful are capable of generating a lasting impression; conversely, the impressions of counter-culture may be less obvious, but no less felt to those involved. family legacies and community meetups are great examples of culture that is relatively small-scale but that has lasting cultural impact. books and stories created by bitcoiners, also, seem to have relative longevity, if we look at history. in sum, i would say that those involved in building on bitcoin, whether it be on the level of technology, circular economies, community or their nuclear family, should consider the distinction between what is the visible versus the potential felt impact of their actions, and weight these carefully with the cultural and financial legacy they wish to leave behind.
567 sats \ 2 replies \ @plebpoet 8h
great thoughtful discussion here - and thank you for saying kind words and putting my name next to legendary madex! It's good to shift focus from short term to long term and project out what may be left as the culture artifacts of bitcoin emerging alongside us. Impressive how you laid it out here, I'll have to think more on this. In the short term, I genuinely hide my interest in bitcoin from people I might want to become friends with because the optics are so bad. That sucks! And since tech isn't my interest, I often don't know how making art in this space makes any sense for me at all. But then there's the other thing, there's no home for my art in the broader culture either. As you point out:
culture, in general, is deficient nowadays because most of the informational artifacts we consume are extremely fleeting and temporary
Stacker News fixes this, honestly. Here I can use the tool that I'm enthusiastic to use and the content isn't limited, it is not taking the tool to be the all-encompassing subject. Some may be disgruntled about it, but it is incredible how SN is slowly transforming but remains stubborn enough to demand excellence outside of bitcoin topics. I love freedom.
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In the short term, I genuinely hide my interest in bitcoin from people I might want to become friends with because the optics are so bad. That sucks! Tots, I do this too, Plebpoet!
Not great, feels disingenuous, but also way more practical... people come with sooo much intellectual bagage re: bitcoin. Don't wanna touch that right off the bat (or really, ever)
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thank you for saying kind words and putting my name next to legendary madex
you were the first two examples that came to mind. i hope there are many more of whom i am unawares
it is not taking the tool to be the all-encompassing subject
well-said! although i wish i could rush to a point when there is a greater share of non-bitcoin or tech related discussions. great work on this front being done in some territories here, notably ~HealthAndFitness ~econ ~AskSN, and ~BooksAndArticles, to name just a few; hopefully soon enough bitcoin normalizes and there will be more important/exciting things to talk about (he-he!)
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This is one of the reasons I really want Stacker News to continue improving evergreen-ness of great content.
We can build immortal discussion threads that contain deep insights that might not surface anywhere else.
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97 sats \ 4 replies \ @Scoresby 7h
Wouldn't it be cool if discussion continued on posts?
Commenting on an old post notifies the author and the people you reply to, but the main street of stackers don't know anything about the ongoing discussion. This is sad. But it's a hard problem to solve.
The old school internet forum style (like BitcoinTalk uses) of surfacing threads that have recent comments may keep the conversation going, but it's kinda clunky.
I wonder what other style of social media does a good job of this?
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the main street of stackers don't know anything about the ongoing discussion.
it makes these discussions more insular which could be good and bad, i guess.
am wrong in thinking it is part of the reward structure that incentivizes people to prioritize recent posts? or is it zaprank?
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What I've pitched to @k00b, and I think he liked, is to allow older posts to become top posts again if they get fresh engagement.
That would restart the rewards clock and reincentivize stackers to zap the post.
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53 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 5h
Yep 100% on board
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 5h
That's pretty cool! I'd totally dig that!
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something it realistically has the potential to fulfill and it never needed another block-chain!
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Thanks for the shout-out!
"fiat-ishize bitcoin" is a beautiful freakin' phrase. Stealing.
Also:
bitcoiners concerned about cultural legacy should focus on continuing to memorialize the more niche, freedom-focused and tech-focused elements of bitcoin, in ways that outlast the 24h news cycle.
Fuck. Yes.
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i really enjoy your contributions to sn. the only thing i'd enjoy more is if you helped meme this phrase into the bitcoiner lexicon.
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Ill do my best
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100 sats \ 3 replies \ @Scoresby 6h
I often feel awkward making bitcoin art (if goofy posters can be called that). Art I've done just cause I couldn't not do it is just whatever comes to mind. But Bitcoin art is thematic. It feels a little like the religious or political artwork that you find around the world: it's propaganda.
I don't mean that pejoratively. Many wondrous things have been made by propagandists. But it's hard to take oneself seriously when you feel like your making propaganda.
Is art for art's sake different than art with an agenda?
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i have seen and deeply appreciate your art and i the reason i didn't mention it is because it seems to fall into the 'art with an agenda' category. i don't consider it any less valuable. the point i was making is that to people outside of bitcoin communities, it might get automatically pigenholed as "bitcoin art" and dismissed. think of the great number of people who will miss out on cathedral frescoes and cathedral painting simply because they will never enter a church! their loss, imo!
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby 6h
it's a good point. I think that's what I'm worrying about myself. But how to make bitcoin art that isn't propaganda?
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good question. maybe it should come from a similar place as the need to separate money from state. also i think there is a fine line between art that is propaganda and art that isn't, since I think all art is attempting to communicate something or other
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There's something I didn't quite catch: Are you more concerned about how Bitcoin culture is perceived by people outside the bitcoin community, or by people inside it?
I think Bitcoin is such a large tent now that it's gonna be impossible to refer to a single bitcoin culture; rather there are multiple subcultures that exist in the bitcoin community
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it was meant more as a discussion about the cultural legacy of bitcoiners. i think that how bitcoin culture is remembered, whether we can define this or not, is a combination of the perception from outside and actual experience of those involved.
edit: personally, I'm more interested in the experiential side, but i can recognize that perception cannot be completely discounted
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