pull down to refresh

Photon SDK for seedless bitcoin wallet designsdocs.photonsdk.org/
1167 sats \ 14 comments \ @Scoresby 13h bitcoin
I saw @moneyball post about Photon SDK on X. It was made by @tankredhase (on X) in 2022 (it was for lightning back then, but looks like it's an onchain thing now) but looks similar to the Bitkey model of seedless backup.
App developers can build compelling seedless user experiences using encrypted cloud backup and multi-sig.
The SDK is open source and includes a key server, api, react native client and a demo app.
I'm torn on the seedless idea. Bitkey makes it very difficult for users to extract their private key data and in a panel at Bitcoin 2025, Max Guise, from Block/Bitkey, said that wallet portability could mean "sending to a new address." This feels a lot like vendor lock in to me.
On X, I pushed on the question a little bit: do Bitkey users have to use Bitkey electrum nodes? Can Bitkey prevent users from signing or broadcasting a transaction? And the answer seems to be negative in both cases. But it's not exactly easy. Users have to download an emergency recovery kit from a github repo and sideload it on their phone and a lot of the redundancy goes away (if you are in a situation where you cannot access Bitkey's services AND you lose either your phone or your Bitkey device, you are screwed).
So, if this SDK is similar to Bitkey, I hope it allows users to export key material more easily. How do stackers feel about seedless?
write
preview
related posts
202 sats \ 11 replies \ @moneyball 8h
The emergency kit is only needed if the mobile app is forcibly removed from your phone. That's an extreme case.
Otherwise just send your funds using the app to move to a new wallet.
Vendor lock-in is made up FUD come on.
reply
203 sats \ 10 replies \ @Scoresby OP 8h
There is still a fundamental difference between key material that can be imported into multiple different wallets and the design that is move to a new wallet by sending your coins (signing a transaction).
If I am in a country that gets sanctioned by the US and I use a Bitkey, I will likely no longer be able to connect to any Bitkey server. Okay, this is fine if I can turn on the app and get to the point where I can select a different electrum server.
However, if there is any point during the process of creating, signing and broadcasting a transaction that requires something from a Bitkey server, then I have to rely on the emergency recovery kit.
Seeds, though they carry other risks, do have a great advantage on this. I can stop using whatever wallet won't work for me and import the seeds into a different wallet pretty easily. This seems valuable to me. I wish the Bitkey design made it easier to export my keys if I really wanted to.
reply
100 sats \ 9 replies \ @moneyball 8h
If you use your own Electrum server and sign with your mobile app and Bitkey device why do you need Bitkey's server?
And again, in the scenario where the US sanctions a country, the emergency exit kit exists.
You said vendor lock-in. Please support such a claim.
reply
187 sats \ 8 replies \ @Scoresby OP 8h
I'm thinking of the scenario where I'm just a normal Bitkey user. I don't know much about public electrum servers. But I happen to be in a country the US suddenly picks a fight with.
If I haven't preplanned for this scenario, will I be able to still sign a transaction?
In the case of seeds words, I don't have to worry. Lots of wallet software supports the standard.
Bitkey's solution is not so much like a standard. It is unique to Bitkey and telling users that there's no vendor lock in because they can send their coins to a new wallet is very tenuously true.
In general, users have understood bitcoin wallet lock in to mean you can only restore the wallet with that specific vendor's software. This is true for Bitkey.
Spend your coins to a new address is a new definition of not being locked in.
reply
117 sats \ 7 replies \ @moneyball 7h
If a user is at high risk of US sanctions, then maybe Bitkey isn't the right product for them. But again, even if such a user buys Bitkey, they are not screwed if sanctions come, because they have the emergency exit kit.
There are MANY users in the world who are ill-prepared to handle private key material directly, so seedless designs are a better solution for them. Bitcoiners should rejoice that we have more options on the market.
And again, please stop with the FUD / outright lie of vendor lock-in. I still haven't seen you provide an example.
reply
0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Scoresby OP 7h
Do you agree that "send to a new address" is a new definition of not being locked in?
Is it true that I can only restore my Bitkey wallet in another instance of Bitkey app?
Those are my examples.
There are MANY users in the world who are ill-prepared to handle private key material directly
Sure, but why not make it just a little easier to export my keys? It doesn't have to be super easy, but what is the risk of allowing users (with some very large scary warning) export their keys, or even seed words that make it easy to import to another wallet?
view all 6 replies
34 sats \ 0 replies \ @moneyball 8h
The Photon project hasn't changed. It has always been about backing up your seed.
reply
17 sats \ 0 replies \ @SevenOfNine 8h
There's always a seed. It's just not yours in this design.
reply