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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypno 16h \ on: Bulk Zap Advertise on Nostr nostr
Sounds interesting, will try that for Seed Keys.
I like the idea of pop rivets, but:
The stack height is about 19.5mm, so you’d need a 25mm+ rivet. Not sure how easy it is to find those, or the tool to set them.
Also, only the round hole (5mm) works for rivets. The rectangular one (3×6mm) is too narrow. So you’d be relying on a single rivet. And still probably need a cable tie for the second hole.
Plus, a rivet could be removed and re-riveted with little trace. So it’s not really tamper-evident.
And yeah, it requires a special tool. Another thing to buy, if you don’t already have one.
Yeah I was thinking that it could be prized open with a blade and screw driver, and broken in such a way that means accessing it is destroying it.
That goes further than what I had in mind. My first thought is: that would probably weaken the whole backup. But I find the idea interesting.
Also, I suggest adding another piece of metal for accompanying details, such as derivation paths or whatever. This solution should be accessible to non-Bitcoiners for inheritance reasons, and basic things like not being aware of derivation paths can trip people up when they've never recovered a wallet before.
Thanks for the suggestion.
There's an extra blank key, but not sure if it could fit the derivation path.
Also, to save on transport costs, the letter punches I have in stock don't have letters. But you can easily find one in a local store.
Thanks, I hadn’t considered wax paper before.
I think a few things make it hard in practice:
First, the fit is tight by design. While you could stretch one of the seals to slide paper between two keys, it would leave marks: whitish stress lines where it’s been pulled. That’s tamper evidence.
Also, both keys may be stamped (for 24-word seed phrases). So any impression would be a superposition of two letter sets, which would likely make it unreadable.
I think if someone has that much time and patience, they’d probably just break the seal and move the funds. It’s faster.
The seals aren’t meant to stop every attack.
They’re meant to make access evident, for threats like curious family, resale, or quick snooping.
For those, it works.
Not sure, so I asked AI:
Brushed stainless steel (like the keys) offers a textured surface that eliminates the need for additional sanding. However, thorough cleaning with isopropyl alcohol or a degreaser is essential to remove oils, dirt, and contaminants. For a strong, durable bond, use a two-part epoxy or a polyurethane adhesive formulated for metal.
However, that could be messier than with soldering. Because you can't know where the glue will go when you press the keys together. It could come over the letters, and when you remove that glue (not sure how to do that), it may make the letters unreadable.
Sounds like a hassle. To make the set tamper-proof, better to put the device in a container, like a safe deposit box.
OK, but you should keep in mind:
- Entering the first 4 letters of a word is enough to find the word - that's a property of the BIP39 word list, the most common standard for seed phrases these days.
- Each machine could have a cache, or a log of what's been engraved. And the shop could get your seed words that way. Then, I think it'd be quite easy to brute force the correct order. Maybe you can go to several shops to mitigate that risk...
Seems to me there are better ways to engrave, either with a letter punch as I use for my sets, an engraving pen, or a rotary tool. With these tools, you don't enter any word anywhere with the help/assistance of anyone, but by yourself, on your durable medium.
Thanks for all the feedback.
I wish it was $5 too. Someday, maybe, if scale brings costs down. For now, it’s small batches. So the price is still a work in progress.
And yes, you can DIY it. I even wrote a guide: https://seedkeys.xyz/diy-seed-phrase-storage/
Seed Keys is just one option for those who want everything out of the box.
The cable ties aren’t to make the set tamper-proof, They're seals to make it tamper-evident. If they're broken, you know someone got in.
You have omitted providing your asking price. It always worried me when people do that. How much do you charge for a set?
Fair question.
The launch price is $55.
Being in Thailand I assume you are unable to accept Bitcoin as payment since they banned MoE use of Bitcoin?
You're right, businesses aren't supposed to accept Bitcoin as payment in Thailand.
So I'm reframing it: Seed Keys is now a support-based project, not a store.
You contribute in BTC, I ship a kit.
In the meantime, I’ll finally set up a fiat payment gateway, and jump through all the KYC loops.
Not ideal. But if it helps more people secure their keys, fine.
I didn't know, so I tried:
The soldering wire wouldn't stick to stainless steel...
AI said it's due to the material's stubborn oxide layer.
It may be possible to solder, but not with standard soldering iron and wire.
Take a look at the tutorial video where I did the whole process: https://vimeo.com/1105427318
Keys don't bend on a flat surface.
Walking around with your seed phrase, entering your seed words in the engraving machine, and waiting for the words to be engraved seems like taking a big risk.
Plus, I'm not sure of the medium they'd use for the tags, and if it'd be durable enough.
I hadn't thought of just releasing the keys when 1 cable tie secured.
So, yeah, you're right - need 2 cable ties to ensure tamper-proofing, not just 1.
It's good that I provide 3 with each set. But I need to change the text on the site to reflect that. Thanks for the feedback.