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168 sats \ 9 replies \ @SimpleStacker 7 Apr \ on: Is the America Getting Ripped Off? econ
Well, certain parts of the country, and that includes Trump's base, really were affected negatively by China trade.
The impact is so well known and studied in the economics literature that we have a name for it, the "China shock."
It's been demonstrated that counties whose economies were more threatened by Chinese imports ended up having higher unemployment, depression, suicide, drug use, etc. after China joined the WTO.
Sadly, the main response from neoliberals has been "learn to code"... which even though it's kinda true... it's also a bit heartless and ignorant of reality to make it so simple.
Right now, I wanna tell all the federal workers getting laid off, and all the journalists to learn to code too.
But my point is that certain parts of the country were really hurt by trade.
My problem with Trump's tariffs isn't even the tariffs themselves, it's the haphazard way that they're being executed... and honestly if he keeps going down this path I think Gavin Newsom is gonna be the next president.
hurt by trade
This is different than "being ripped off". I worked in a factory job in the early 2000s that was off-shored to China. I'm well aware of the affects of globalization. I also realize we aren't talking about purely "free trade" here. I just point the finger at the politicians not China or whoever per se.
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Oh, and I did learn to code... long before that became a meme. One thing free market people like myself often discount is that the market can be brutal. It has no morals or feelings. For people nearing the end of their working lives drastic market shifts can be incredibly hard. I'll just end with this. The US is its own worst enemy. The US gov does far more damage to itself than any other government.
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What do you think should have been done for the communities affected by the China trade shock, if anything?
I do wonder if welfare policies just kept people in their state of despair.
One thing I think a lot of the management class doesn't understand is that you can't just solve problems by giving people money. People need to feel a sense of pride in their own work.
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Honestly, I don't know. I can tell you the government didn't do nothing. There were programs that paid for college education if you lost your job due to off-shoring. I used one to pay for 2 years of community college. I was one of a few that actually used it. Most of the people I knew in the factory had zero interest in a career shift. A few did though. Some were even older dudes.
Most of the people I worked with just found jobs in other factories or other blue collar jobs. Some took early retirement. Its not like the area I was in was booming and then cratered though. Its not like the rust belt in that way.
I hated working in a factory anyway so I was looking for a way out anyway. It was just a job that put food on the table while I figured out life. It was dirty hard work. I don't miss it but for many it was all they knew.
IMO the US shot itself in the foot with over-regulation, over-taxation, and fiat money printing. It wasn't just "free-trade" with China that did this. Of course the cost difference in labor was a massive factor and maybe even the biggest factor, it wasn't the only one.
When it was announced I was working in the QA area and heard the old times inspecting the product coming from the Chinese factory and it was better quality and much lower in cost to produce. Those guys didn't say this stuff very loudly. I remember hearing guys complain about the outsourcing but also being very pro-union. It was a union shop and I think unions played a role as well.
What Americans do not want to admit is that many of us simply are not as hungry and willing to work as those from poverty. Of course there are plenty of Americans that would out work anyone but I can tell you in my time in the factories (worked at several) there were plenty of deadbeats that milked the union job dry. Many of these guys railed about their jobs being stolen by foreigners and after a while it just go so old to me.
Today I see this in tech/IT with foreign workers being more hungry. But I also see it in guys that come from blue collar backgrounds switching to coding. They will often out work the tech bros.
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While offshoring and competition definitely effected factors jobs...
They say that automation effected them even more. The 'peak' number of factory jobs was in the 1970s before the number of jobs dropped. Well before China entered the WTO so it wasn't just overseas competition.
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I'd buy that. And automation is still increasing.
What Americans do not want to admit is that many of us simply are not as hungry and willing to work as those from poverty
The "we need to suffer some pain" narrative some Americans are touting now also shows how completely divorced many people are from the experience of actual hunger and poverty. The wealthy, of course, don't have to worry about this. What's sad is some people who actually could suffer are buying into this romanticized narrative that the pain will be worth it for them.
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I think I misread your comment the first time I read it. I don't think I've heard a "we need to suffer some pain" narrative, or if I have it was so dumb I forgot it.
What I was getting at was entitlement and laziness. It is far more common than many would like to admit.