How many of you here live entirely on Bitcoin, with no reliance on fiat at all? \ stacker news ~AskSN

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How many of you here live entirely on Bitcoin, with no reliance on fiat at all?

1153 sats \ 26 comments \ @NovaRift 24 Jan AskSN

I’m just curious to know since most of you here are Bitcoiners and the discussions suggest that nobody here prefers fiat currency.

For example, @Darthcoin mentioned in a conversation that he hasn’t gone back to fiat since 2018 and lives entirely on Bitcoin—no fiat at all.

I’m wondering, how about the rest of you?

I know it’s very challenging, so if not fully, maybe to some extent? How do your family and friends react to this lifestyle? Before discovering Stacker News, I couldn’t even imagine this type of existence being possible. Just really curious to know how you all manage to do it.

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293 sats \ 4 replies \ @leo 24 Jan

I stopped using my bank account in early 2021. Since then I've been paid in Bitcoin, and it's been quite the journey. I knew that eventually my bank accounts would fail me as I travelled the world and moved countries, and eventually in late 2022 I got locked out. Not a big deal, I closed both accounts I had shortly after.

I'm getting paid in sats, I'm trying to pay as many expenses as I can in sats, but it's been getting more difficult. There are fewer services now that let me book hotels and flights with Bitcoin than in 2021. I would sell Bitcoin for cash peer to peer, which would help me cover a big portion of my expenses and even tax payments. I also use gift cards a lot.

In 2023 I got a Bitcoin debit card, which made my life a bit easier, and I think this year I'm going to take another step back away from Bitcoin, using a virtual bank account that I can fund over Lightning, attached to a debit card, to cover regular expenses.

I fear there are way too few of us, the "buy and hodl" meme is too strong and Bitcoin is failing as a currency. I don't think Bitcoin can do well as "digital gold", mainly because I think gold is an absolute failure, too. I would love to use Bitcoin more, but at times I feel a bit alone in that struggle.

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @NovaRift OP 24 Jan

stopped using my bank account in early 2021. Since then I've been paid in Bitcoin, and it's been quite the journey. I knew that eventually my bank accounts would fail me as I travelled the world and moved countries, and eventually in late 2022 I got locked out. Not a big deal, I closed both accounts I had shortly after.

Yes, I guess this is the major problem—why we all need Bitcoin. Banks can lock you out of your money at any time. It’s still very early, which is why we are short of services that accept Bitcoin as payment.

I fear there are way too few of us, the "buy and hodl" meme is too strong and Bitcoin is failing as a currency. I don't think Bitcoin can do well as "digital gold", mainly because I think gold is an absolute failure, too. I would love to use Bitcoin more, but at times I feel a bit alone in that struggle.

So inspiring to hear your story. It’s you all who are making the change for us. Thank you.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @john_doe 25 Jan

Can you elaborate how you do P2P transactions from Bitcoin to cash? Have you ever been threatened also (Russian mafia, etc) during such transactions? And could you tell us how much you lose in fees monthly? Are fees a significant part of the total? Lastly, was your debit card based on a KYC service? And is the bank account KYC as well? I am interested in doing a slow transition to Bitcoin only, at least for financial security. I always have problems to create a bank account or even get a credit card.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @leo 25 Jan

I mainly find buyers for my sats through mutual friends and Bitcoin telegram groups. As a seller, it's super easy, there are far more people that want to buy sats than sell. I dont charge or expect to pay a fee for such transactions. And I've never been in an uncomfortable situation, either.

I've used non-KYC cards, but they are a total mess and I'm giving up on them. The KYC cards are more reliable, the fees they charge are mainly foreign currency fees.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe 25 Jan

I see, thanks.

171 sats \ 3 replies \ @fiatbad 24 Jan

At the start of 2025, I decided to try my hardest to boycott fiat-only merchants and to try to live on Bitcoin.

I used BTCmap.org and Oshi. Then, I tried to meet local farmers/ranchers via local Bitcoin meetups, The Orange Pill app, and local farmers markets.

I purposely chose Madiera and Roatan as vacation destinations, so I could get hotels and restaurants entirely with Bitcoin. I'm fortunate to have had a remote job, so I went on "vacation" and worked at the same time. I run my own LN node and manage my own channels. So, when I was half way across the world in Madeira, I could easily spend Sats from my node in the U.S. at the speed of lightning. Non-custodially.

I helped a few local businesses set up their own LN nodes so that I could buy their products without using fiat.

It was great for a time. But, toward the end of the year, I began to lose my resilience. I think it was the lack of community support. Bitcoiners I knew were not living this way.... in fact, they seemed to think I was crazy for trying to. In August, I read Roger Ver's "Hijacking Bitcoin", where Ver argues that BTC has lost its original vision of becoming "cash-like" to threaten central bankers and the fiat system. He argues Bitcoiners today only care about NGU and are apathetic toward the fiat system.

It was depressing... feeling like the only soldier in the war who cared about vanquishing the enemy... Surrounded by a bunch of soft-bellied, NGU fanatics.

I helped a local bar/restaurant get setup with a self-custody LN Node and then worked with my local Bitcoin meetup to move the meetup to this new location that accepted Bitcoin. People were excited to be having the meetup in an establishment whose owner was also part of our war. Until it came time to pay. Only 4 out of 100 people paid with Bitcoin that night. In subsequent meetups, the owner doesn't even pull out the BTCPayServer iPad anymore. Everyone just pays with fiat. EVEN at these massive meetups.

Suffice to say, it's technically better for my stack if I just use Fold, pay with fiat, and get Bitcoin rewards back. There's little incentive for Bitcoiners to actually use Bitcoin as a medium-of-exchange.... except for ending fiat, fighting slavery, and helping put an end to the greatest oppression the world has ever known. But I guess this doesn't matter to Bitcoiners. Using rewards cards and spending fiat first because it's cheaper and easier.... this matters more, I guess. I grew tired of being the only trying to make change happen. I've gone back to using my Fold and stacking Sats like a good little central-bank wage slave.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @NovaRift OP 24 Jan

Thanks very much for sharing your story, very inspired by this. It needs a separate post of its own.

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatbad 24 Jan

It was getting pretty long already, but I forgot I wanted to end with a paragraph saying something like the following:

I think the incentives to use Bitcoin as a medium-of-exchange become exponentially stronger with each new person doing it. Take "Bitcoin Beach" in El Salvador, for example. In that town, if a merchant is not excepting Bitcoin for payment, they are hurting their business. This is because so many people there demand it. There is A LOT of support to help onboard new businesses. People in the US think Bitcoin and Lightning are "hard to use", but that's only because there aren't enough people doing it. It becomes easier when there is more support and usage. Lightning is amazing. We could be using Bitcoin as a medium of exchange TODAY, and it would be faster and cheaper than any alt-coin. And with Core upgrades such as CTV, it will be even easier, faster, and cheaper to use. But these things will only happen if Bitcoiners push it to happen instead of sit around passively stacking. It's not going to happen if Store-of-value is the only way it's used. The idea that Bitcoin might not be the end of central banks should terrify us. Bitcoiners should push for CTV and/or other small upgrades to help Bitcoin scale, and they should want to sacrifice a little by trying their hardest to use Bitcoin for payments more frequently.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatbad 24 Jan

I meant to say "At the start of 2024". Very confusing typo for anyone who may have already read this..

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 25 Jan

Still very new to Bitcoin and to professional life, I'm gonna be there for sure. But the current scene of Bitcoin in India doesn't pose a very promising picture. Most people I asked about Bitcoin say they've just listened about it and they consider it a scam. I just don't waste my time arguing them.

68 sats \ 1 reply \ @NostrDevTeam 24 Jan

This is actually pretty common around the EU - we're personally aware of dozens of people who are doing the same (zero-fiat). One guy in our team hasn't used a bank since 2023.

There are a few things you need to focus on:

Orange Pill your local merchants (eg the island of Alderney, they added 6 merchants in the last few weeks)
Move! To a Bitcoin friendly place (eg Madeira). Check https://btcmap.org
Join local meetups for p2p trades. You pay KYC-free bitcoin, they pay your rent / bills / give you cash / whatever.
Use https://shopinbit.com for general "stuff"
Use the shopinbit concierge for other stuff
Get paid in Bitcoin (we're hiring - https://bitcoinerjobs.com/job/1640030-full-stack-developer-nostr-dev-team )
Robosats as a lifeline

Try and get out of the habit of "whipping out" your bank card or mobile pay / whatever. If you really can't use Bitcoin, always pay with cash. And never purchase anything without first asking "can I pay with Bitcoin?"

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NovaRift OP 24 Jan

Thanks for the valuable info, didn’t know this.

57 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 24 Jan

Nice try, fed!

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 24 Jan

Sweet!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NovaRift OP 24 Jan

🤣

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @john_doe 25 Jan

In my case I am far from living on a Bitcoin standard but pay with Lightning when I can, and then recharge periodically. Mainly useful services for me, so the search engine Kagi, sometimes a VPN connection with Ipvpn. Last year I have been in Europe for a small time, and Yahoo news was forbidden there (it felt like being in communist countries), so I did a quick setup with Phoenix. Sometimes I buy a coffee or a pizza here and there also with Lightning.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @NovaRift OP 25 Jan

Thanks for your story. I'm sure soon you will be able to live on Bitcoins, if not fully, then to a great extent. You're already making a lot of change when paying for your pizza and coffee with Lightning.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Blank 24 Jan

I would love to leave fiat behind and live on a Bitcoin standard.

At the moment, I only save, invest, and think in Bitcoin. When I say "thinking in Bitcoin," I mean I price everything in sats. When I’m out shopping, I think about whether I actually need to buy something or if it’s just going to end up in a landfill. If it’s just going to end up in the landfill, isn’t it better to spend it on some forever money instead?

There really aren’t enough businesses that accept Bitcoin in my country, sadly. If there were, I would definitely increase the amount I convert into Bitcoin each payday.

My friends and family appreciate the way I think.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @NovaRift OP 24 Jan

Great to hear your story and thanks for the idea of "thinking in bitcoin." It's still very early; I'm hopeful that very soon the Bitcoin standard will become a reality.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @jakoyoh629 24 Jan

Going full Bitcoin is practically impossible; using stuff like Bitrefill kinda misses the point.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @NovaRift OP 24 Jan

True, that's why I asked this question: if not fully, then to what extent is everyone living on bitcoins? Thanks.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @jakoyoh629 24 Jan

It's tough to say exactly what everyone's doing with Bitcoin; I figure everyone uses it in their own way. I think looking at on chain and LN activity gives you a good idea of what's going on.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Milkman9000 24 Jan

Greshams law means a lot of people prefer stacking , instead of spending

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 24 Jan

Good one. One day, will achieve this wonderful goal. Living entirely on Bitcoin. My first step is, orange-pilling friends, family and relatives, and the people in my community.

This is already a reality in Kenya, where Tando is enabling anyone to live on Bitcoin easily.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Riberet 24 Jan

I haven't reached that point yet, but I'm getting closer every day.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 24 Jan

I would like to eventually. I know fold is doing doing some interesting things with bill pay