Half of Gen Z supports Marxism/socialism. Here’s why. (2020) \ stacker news ~econ

pull down to refresh

Half of Gen Z supports Marxism/socialism. Here’s why. (2020)rlo.acton.org/archives/117396-half-of-gen-z-supports-marxism-socialism-heres-why.html

667 sats \ 23 comments \ @kepford 3 Jan econ

How can young Americans distrust the government to look after their interests yet endorse socialism, which entrusts the government with the power to redistribute wealth, direct all economic activity, and control their access to such necessities as healthcare?

The poll’s results highlight two simple answers: ignorance of socialism and a jaundiced view of the United States induced by critical theory.

Americans suffer a two-pronged ignorance of socialism: what it is and what is has done. As Simon van Zuylen-Wood explained in New York magazine last March, “the word [socialism] had lost its meaning by the time it got hot again.” Thus, 31% of VOC respondents say they believe that socialism “[m]eans a free market economy with private property” in which “the government provides ample social welfare benefits, as in many Scandinavian and Western European countries.” In reality, Scandinavian countries have tried for years to inform Americans in general (and Bernie Sanders, in particular) that they are not socialist, and that democratic socialists like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez fundamentally misunderstand the Scandinavian model. The Nordic countries jettisoned policies like the ones AOC proposes after their economies crashed during the 1980s

view all related items

116 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

This story is old but rings true for me. I used to be shocked by the positive attitude towards socialism and negative reaction to capitalism. That is no longer the case.

Why is this the case? The government education system and our culture. Free markets and capitalism are under constant attack. "Progressives" have near complete control over the government education system. Sure, there are good teachers and people in the system but they don't control it. Many are just passive contributors to the system that rots the minds of our youth.

IMO the solution is simple but not easy. Shut down the government schooling system. Parents need to take back their kid's education.

The other caveat I would add is that the right wing conservative movement has done a terrible job combating this positive view of socialism. Libertarians do a much better job because they are less statist. The problem with conservatives is that they like a little socialism. They love the state to much to cut to the root of the problems with socialism.

77 sats \ 8 replies \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

I just need to add, the recent uproar around American culture not valuing academics over sports and popularity is interesting. I wasn't following the whole thread on Twitter but I did see some bitcoiners on Nostr getting all angry about the Indian-American criticizing American culture. The same people that would be cheering on a story like the one I linked here. American culture is not lost but it has many flaws that aren't recent. They have been getting worse over generations.

Anyone that wants to grow and improve needs to be open to criticism. IMO we need to make some changes in our culture. I have long believed this and tried by best to do so in my household.

69 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

I think it's well worth considering the immediate impressions of foreigners. We do value some perverse things and should reflect on it.

I'm reminded of how bizarre Michael Malice, coming from the Soviet Union, finds our deification of cops. He says that other cultures tend to view cops as crass thugs.

63 sats \ 6 replies \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

100%

I love meeting immigrants and foreigners for this reason. I can tell you the vast majority of them love the US and the freedoms we take for granted. I've noticed what Malice says is true with the Eastern Europeans I've met.

Its also interesting to see how people from certain cultures find more success in the US that those from other places. People that are coming from countries like India and were held back by their caste or religious minority status.

Its also interesting to see how in a single generation their families change to become more "American" in both positive and negative ways.

70 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

the vast majority of them love the US and the freedoms we take for granted.

This is what has pissed me off the most about the work visa system. So many my grad school friends would have been excellent Americans, but they weren't allowed to stay here.

59 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

Its also not just the grad school people. Its many of the laborers as well.

The idea that immigrants are all the same is as dumb as the cops are heroes or teachers are heroes. Many are villains. In my experience the people complaining about the immigrants stealing are jobs the loudest should be concerned because they are lazy and they know they will be out worked.

My views on immigration are complex but it all starts with the evil state. Open borders is an ideal but under the status quo it is a nightmare. If you kill the welfare state and labor laws you might be able to make it work but I'm not convinced.

IMO much of the push for open borders IS about cheap labor. I'm always torn on this topic.

69 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

Another big part of the push for open borders is inflating electoral votes in California.

It's a tricky subject, but as you say, it wouldn't be tricky if there weren't so many terribly destructive domestic policies.

35 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford OP 4 Jan

Yep, though this could backfire as many immigrants are less progressive than many imagine.

46 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 4 Jan

That's the beauty of illegal immigration. You get the electoral college votes and house seats without risking different voting patterns (until it blows up in your face and some orange guy gets elected).

view replies

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 4 Jan

The excerpt makes some good points (I'm getting a cloudflare error when I click through to the article itself), but I think there's often a simpler explanation: Gen Z is old enough to understand that the government isn't working, but young enough to believe that a government could work. So seeing one that professes to be capitalist failing, they support the opposite (which in turn is where ignorance of socialism kicks in).

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 4 Jan

Edgy opinion here:

This is not a bad thing. The most important thing is that the elites will be scared and realize that the people are dissatisfied and want revolutionary change in the sociooeconomic system. In the chaos Bitcoin can emmerge.

Example: The french revolution was about getting democracy but produced the exact opposite of a democracy, an emporer called Napoleon. The elites lost everything and the king got beheaded. In the same vain Bitcoin can benefit from socialist uprisings, assassinations of healthcare CEOs, firebombed walmarts and an reoccupied Wallstreet.

62 sats \ 0 replies \ @galt 4 Jan

What that generation doesn't get yet is that under Marxist/socialism the state doesn't care about what they think

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @TNStacker 3 Jan

Americans are miseducated by design. Those who understand that are not surprised by this.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

100%

39 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

Surprise surprise, they have no clue what they're talking about.

Unfortunately, such people still get to vote en masse.

61 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

Additionally people do not understand capitalism or the free market. Mal-education is at the root of the problem and expecting the system that created the problem to fix it is a fools errand.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 4 Jan

💯

57 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford OP 3 Jan

This is the number one reason why I oppose democracy.

Many years ago I remember pissing people off when I would complain about the California proposition system. A system where the voters directly enact legislation. Over and over again it has been demonstrated the public doesn't understand what they are doing.

Those that can't lead themselves are not qualified to select their leaders.

~ Michael Malice

57 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

I think people should basically only get to vote on repealing things and recalling elected officials. Basically, it should just be a pressure release valve.

37 sats \ 0 replies \ @af1f6f3e17 3 Jan

What a surprise

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @JesseJames 4 Jan

I seriously think (well not really seriously but for fun) that one class in HS should be a trip to gulag in Russia, let them spend there few weeks.. and ask them how they feel about US of A upon their return...lol

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford OP 4 Jan

Yeah for sure. But the deeper issue with socialism is that even with the most moral and good people it will still not work.