I no longer use Kraken since #681879 but I am still subscribed to their emails. Just received this one:
Hi ek,
We’re reaching out to let you know about upcoming updates to how crypto deposits and withdrawals are processed. These changes, driven by new European Union regulatory requirements, are designed to align crypto with the security standards already in place for traditional financial systems.
What’s Changing
Beginning December 30, 2024, some deposits and withdrawals in select European countries will require additional verification steps. These updates are part of the EU’s broader regulation of crypto assets.
Here’s how we’re keeping it simple:
Wallet Verification for deposits from private wallets: If your private wallet deposit or withdrawal exceeds €1,000 in value, or if you’re using a new wallet address, you’ll be prompted to verify your wallet ownership.
Future Ease: Once a wallet is verified, future transactions with that same address won’t need further verification.
Seamless Verification Options
We’ve made the verification process straightforward and secure through one of two methods:
Self-Certification: Verify ownership with a simple one-click process and a quick 2FA security check.
Satoshi Test: Send a small transaction from your wallet to confirm ownership. We’ll guide you every step of the way.
What This Means for You
Starting December 30, 2024, when making a qualifying deposit or withdrawal, you’ll be guided through the wallet verification process. With verified wallets, your experience remains fast and seamless for future transactions.
For more details about these updates, including a step-by-step guide to wallet verification, visit our Support Center.
If you have any questions, Kraken Support is here to help 24/7/365.
We’re committed to providing you with a secure, reliable, and user-friendly crypto experience.
Thank you for choosing Kraken
The Kraken team
Note that this applies not only to transactions exceeding €1,000 but also to any new wallet address.
The "Thank you for choosing Kraken" is starting to sound mocking.
Notice how this is specifically designed to make privacy difficult, by making it as inconvenient as possible to use different addresses.
Don't assume this is ignorance. Regulators tend to be smart people with a good understanding of the tech they regulate. This is intentional, because they're psychopaths who want to eliminate privacy from society.
Also, it'll be interesting to see if lightning gets banned... There's no equivalent for lightning to this "verification" practice.
I don't know if it's just Germany, but they stopped supporting lightning the moment they switched to BaFin regulated counterparties as mentioned in #681879
what about using a burner wallet like Coinos which supports lightning, on chain and liquid?
It's irrelevant what wallet you use.
This makes me think Robosats and Bisq are the two most important Bitcoin projects at the moment.
I really like Robosats, it even has has a mobile app. I've never used Bisq.
Don't forget about Vexl.
These new EU regulations are spreading the bullshit I'm used to in New York to Europe, I guess.
Do exchanges do this address verification in New York?
I don't know about that specifically. I have never seen it, but I don't use exchanges anymore. It certainly wouldn't surprise me.
This recently happened to me in the UAE recently, I started a withdrawal and then they said it wouldn't be processed immediately as it had to go through some check.
Obviously the governments are converging to similar approaches on how to surveil Bitcoiners. I am decided to never buy Bitcoin from an exchange again, now my Bitcoin will either come from mining, being part of the ecosystem, and p2p.
" security standards"
Kraken employees right now:
view on www.youtube.comAre there other exchanges that work in Europe that are better?
I use Strike currently. But not sure how long they can serve EU customers without enforcing the same regulations.
That was my thinking, too. Hate the game, not the player, etc.
I see what you mean but in some cases, you don’t have to play a certain game. If a game had no players, it would cease to exist, no?
I know there’s probably something I’m missing in this argument, but I think there’s also some value in it.
Yeah, it's complex. I don't have any patience for the "I'm just doing my job!" argument as an indemnification for evil -- e.g., the standard Nazi retort. You shouldn't be evil, period.
But it's also true that it's sometimes hard to know what's evil when the system is very big, because you don't see the control group. And it's also true that some things are out of your control entirely. If you're an exchange, and you want to operate in Europe, either you comply w/ European law, or you don't operate in Europe. Which outcome would you prefer?
I suppose there are some cases where you're so important to a system that you can ignore certain rules, and the system will adapt to you, and not vice versa. That's rare, but it happens, e.g., that old thing about "If you owe the bank $100k, the bank owns you. If you owe the bank $100b, you own the bank."
Kraken's not in that category, obv.
And it's also sometimes true that if you heroically martyr yourself, the system can take note of it, and maybe, after a million more butterflies flap their wings, things will change. I don't usually hold my breath for these changes, though.
Living under EU laws is the toughest thing. People there get the latest tech features much later. I heard that coming AI regulations will make things more difficult.
I left Kraken since the started being very much into KYC hell and they seem to love it to take just one more information about your life every few months
Every operator in EU is subject to the same rules.
Every single one will have this.
It is not that they like it, it is the rules they operate under.
I recently had to make a big deposit, around $2k on Binance for cash requirements, for there's no other better way to P2P in India, and to my surprise they asked for verification.
The question they asked:
Where did you recieve it?
Options:
I'll have to find out another way, because until now I was evading tax but Binance as they said now comply with Indian Rules and regulations, does this. Kraken is better. At least they're announcing it.
But just two days before
Yupp. That's on them. They are all same. I really need to find something that works for me here in India. The big decentralized P2Ps don't have anything for INR and that's a big plight. I can transact in USD but when I get them in my account, the rate is quite lower than the Binance P2P.
I assume it's not the case with only me, evry bitcoiner from India feels it.
Binance P2P USD/INR is around 1/89
Elsewhere it is around 1/84.
Big difference!
Thoughts and prayers 🤣
No problem. I'm in India. I don't think they gonna catch me out of millions who have been evading millions. My amount that might be on the radar is less than what's even considered for income tax in India.
By evading, I meant that I don't file ITR.
So you have to verify your identity to buy or sell, and now you have to verify your wallet? What's next, DNA samples?
This is all a mess, and they're just making it worse. If you don't reuse addresses, you're in trouble unless you consolidate transactions before sending to the exchange. What's that thing called? Isn't there a Bitcoin wallet key that just lets you see all your addresses?
Once you spend from an address its security is weakened. They are requiring unsafe practices.
Exactly. I get it. I know it would be a major privacy leak, but wouldn't it be more convenient to provide the xpub?
xpub
Thanks. I know it would be a major privacy leak, but wouldn't it be more convenient to provide the xpub?
Would have been more of a responsible approach to announce such things more than a hundred hours or so ahead of time.
What’s crazy is the fraudsters and criminals will still find a way to launder through kraken
par for the course with KYC unfortunately
Just leave.
Pretty pathetic. Won't be using their services.
(And yes, I understand that it's not "their" faults but they could at least push back a little! Refuse, fight in court, make media hassle etc)
How are you supposed to maintain privacy... if you reused addresses???
Also how do they feel about CoinJoin? Couldn't you just withdraw directly to JoinMarket?
If and when in the US they start asking 'is this withdrawal for you, or for someone else' will be the last day I use exchanges.
I am already moving in that direction anyways...
Swiss exchanges were doing this retarded verification for a while. An address is not a wallet! And not all wallets allow UTXO selection to send from a specific address. I don't even mention that sending a few satoshis on chain and address reuse is ridiculous. And how does Kraken suppose to verify lightning wallets?
Delusional Sense of Entitlement makes my skin crawl. BRRR.
It really is beyond annoying. Fuck this. KYC increases the risk of identity theft and abuse.
Cracking down with those EU regulations
Dumbfucks still using KYC exchanges in 2025 deserve what's coming for them.
Good luck with normies' adoption and them using P2P nightmare procedures.
Bitcoin is not for normies or statists.
My issue... is I don't want to sign up for yet another kyc payment option... just to send funds to buy non-kyc.
The less kyc the better not adding to it.
Does that make sense?
Yes, that makes perfect sense: Goods and Services are the way.