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The legacy technical leadership in bitcoin is becoming increasingly less effective.
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Almost universally, Core and "graybeard" devs are not focusing on the fundamental problem in bitcoin: preserving trustless UTXO ownership.
Instead they are distracted with valuable but secondary issues like mempool policy, Core code architecture, and minor IBD performance. These things are important in their own right, but they fundamentally don't matter if in times of trouble most users can't take possession of their own coins.
Core devs are exceptionally talented people. The brightest engineers. But the priorities of the project are out of whack.
The aggregate focus does not reflect the thing that makes bitcoin a unique asset: trustless custody.
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Given the current limits of bitcoin, even upper-middle class Americans will not be able to self-custody, let alone the rest of the world.
If bitcoin doesn't figure out how to ensure that most users have a trustless way of owning and sometimes moving coins, it will become basically indistinguishable from a gold ETF. A row in some OFAC-compliant database. Another financial widget that is subject to the regulatory dictates of government.
In fact, if bitcoin does not scale UTXO ownership, gold will have the advantage that at least small amounts of it can be self-custodied and traded peer-to-peer. The same won't be able to be said for bitcoin. In a world where on-chain fees are in the thousands of dollars and there is not a workable, trustless layer two, most coins will be stuck with custodians.
Forget payments. I'm talking about savings. I'm talking about less than checking-account volume. 1-2 transactions a month.
If you think that most people should be able to DCA and withdrawal to self-custody once a month, maybe spend once every few years for big purchases, I've got news for you:
Given bitcoin's current limitations, only 18 million users can do that. A little over 5% of Americans.
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Right now, the chain capacity is able to meet demand for self-custody because we are in a time of relative peace.
Most don't feel at risk keeping their bitcoin with a custodian. That can change very rapidly.
As bitcoin grows in value and challenges fiat currency, governments will increasingly want to control it. They won't ban it, which is now obvious, but almost certainly they will impose OFAC-like restrictions and possible wealth taxes.
When the regulatory hammer comes down, tens of millions will look to withdrawal their coins into self-custody. But they may not be able to.
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Unfortunately this risk does not seem to be top of mind in the current Core culture.
One instance of a tone-deaf Core response to this kind of problem relates to CTV. As Jeremy Rubin has been pointing out for years, CTV would be the most efficient way to guarantee that people can withdrawal coins from institutions in times of chain-panic and congestion, allowing exit to happen during crises without fully "unrolling" transactions. I wrote about this at length in 2023, and why it seems there is no more efficient way to do this (https://delvingbitcoin.org/t/thoughts-on-scaling-and-consensus-changes-2023/32).
And yet technical figureheads like Matt and Murch downplay the value of CTV, claiming that it has no compelling uses.
CTV is one of the primitive building blocks that we need to figure out UTXO scaling solutions. (Not to mention its use in applications like vaults.)
Some Core devs might argue "well okay, maybe we need that functionality - but CTV isn't the right way to do it. We need to think harder!"
The problem is that time is running out. As nation-states begin to enter the technical ecosystem, soft forks that promote scaling and self-custody will be more difficult to deploy. Powerful actors will not want bitcoin to change - they're perfectly happy letting regulated custodians act as the L2.
As the market cap grows, the stakes of change go up, and it will be much harder to get economically relevant actors to run new consensus.
Because Core devs aren't paying close attention to the covenants conversation, they may not realize that CTV is upgradeable, simple, and well-tested. It's good enough.
This gap in understanding partially reveals that those devs prefer to work on more smaller self-contained puzzle problems that are more tractable. Maybe this is understandable given the fraught Core development process and historical drama of soft forks, but neither of those are an excuse for abandoning the core challenge of realizing bitcoin.
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Segwit and Taproot were massive changes, and I can almost understand why so much drama was spent on them. They both basically reinvented how locking scripts are stored and executed in bitcoin.
But to make significant headway on finding a scaling solution for self-custody, it may only take a few opcodes - much more narrowly scoped bits of functionality. Changes that are much easier to test and reason about, and don't reinvent the engine of bitcoin.
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As I continue campaigning for a renewed focus on scaling coin ownership, some may compare me to the "big blockers" of the 2017 scaling wars.
The big-blockers camp wanted to raise the blocksize for the sake of housing the world's P2P payments. They resisted the use of Lightning and other second layer solutions.
The reality is that they have been partially vindicated. Lightning has not solved our problems, and given the on-chain footprint that existing channel constructions require, it categorically cannot. Lightning certainly helps reduce on-chain payment volume once someone has opened a channel - but to do that for most people will require a layer 1 innovation.
I don't share the big blockers' objectives.
I don't think that trying to fit the world's P2P payments on the base chain is a reasonable target.
But the ability to resist near complete capture of UTXO custody by third-party financial institutions - that is intertwined with the core purpose of bitcoin.
In Satoshi's whitepaper, the first sentence claims
"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution."
If most users become unable to even take possession of their own coins a few times a year, we have failed on the objective.
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I am not writing this out of any sense of antagonism. Yes, I am frustrated that after numerous attempts, Core devs are not engaging more productively with the few people trying to translate scaling strategies to the base layer.
But I'm hoping that by calling attention to this issue, we can get some of these great minds to refocus on bitcoin's critical mission, and to realize that ossification will come sooner than we thought.
The existing (and well-funded) power structures want stasis.
The recent show of rapid institutional affinity should make you suspicious that bitcoin in its current form isn't a threat to the fiat order.
The lack of "ivory tower" attendance in the recent OP_NEXT and the broader covenants discourse demonstrates that, like many of America's elite institutions, there has been mission drift in bitcoin's technical elite. I hope this changes.
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The risk of merging many of the opcodes proposed during the last few years is limited.
OP_CAT, OP_CTV, lnhance, probably OP_CCV, some others; they're all fine. If sufficiently tested, great additions to bitcoin.
We can pretty easily mitigate what risk there is with comprehensive testing and analysis, provided the focus is there.
The upside is almost infinite: a reasonable attempt to continue the preservation of bitcoin's unique function - trustless self-custody that is practically available to most.
The legacy technical leadership in bitcoin is becoming increasingly less effective.
Right off the bat James gets something wrong: the leadership of Core right now is mostly not "legacy". They're newcomers like Chow and Zhao who got involved relatively recently.
Instead they are distracted with valuable but secondary issues like mempool policy
Good mempool policy is essential to making L2's work; L2's are the only viable solution we have to scaling self-custody to more people. While I disagree with Core on some of the detailed specifics of the mempool policy that has been adopted, the reasons why so much work has been done on mempool policy are correct.
When the regulatory hammer comes down, tens of millions will look to withdrawal their coins into self-custody. But they may not be able to.
Bitcoin can open about 1.1 billion channels/year with the existing Lightning protocol, with fairly simple changes to existing wallets. Tens of millions is not a big deal.
The irony here is that James has been wasting a bunch of time on an unimportant proposal that does nothing to scale self-custody: OP_Vault. In fact, OP_Vault makes the problem worse, by encouraging a particularly inefficient way of doing self-custody, approximately doubling the amount of chain space needed.
If you think that most people should be able to DCA and withdrawal to self-custody once a month, maybe spend once every few years for big purchases, I've got news for you
No-one has flushed-out proposals that let the world population DCA to genuine on-chain self-custody with minimal fees. Sorry. But we just haven't figured out how to do that. Ark is one of the things that comes closest. But holding a true self-custodial balance on Ark will require fees to pay for liquidity.
The most straightforward way to do DCA with minimal costs is to DCA to a trusted token, eg ecash, and periodically use the accumulated balance to resize a lightning channel. We have about enough on-chain capacity to resize about 470 million LN channels per year.
The world population with a cellphone is estimated to be roughly 4 billion people. So that gets us reasonably close.
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1641 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby 23 Nov
Well worth the read. It's felt like there is pressure building around this issue for the last few years.
preserving trustless UTXO ownership
While I'm a fan of things like ecash, pursuing those sorts of conveniences shouldn't mean we stop working on maximum censorship resistance. If you can't hold a utxo and send it to anyone anytime anywhere, bitcoin loses its value proposition.
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Bitcoin's founding principle and greatest strength lies in its absolute resistance to censorship. It’s the cornerstone of a truly decentralized financial system.
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That's why they need to focus on it
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Peter Todd's thoughts on the OP:
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what's it called in an argument when you focus on a tangential issue?
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Red Herring or Missing the forest for the trees
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  • Decentralized
  • Secure
  • Fast and Cheap
Pick 2.
Core devs aren't paying close attention to the covenants conversation
Why don't proponents of covenants first actually build some pressing new features using covenants and get people to buy-in to their vision.
This sales pitch of "Lets just implement it and I promise that it will all work out" is an absurd elevator pitch that has zero real chance of getting buy-in.
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I think the OP built a mockup of Vault, and there is a demo of CTV as well.
Lightning clearly could benefit from some of these improvements given how difficult self-sovereign use of LN is and how few people chose to use it that way.
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Vaults make the self-custody scaling problem worse, not better. They're very inefficient, requiring approximately double the on-chain space to perform a signalling function that could be done just fine off-chain with a normal multisig wallet.
I need to write up a good article on them one of these days... They're just not a very compelling idea.
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113 sats \ 7 replies \ @freetx 23 Nov
OP built a mockup of Vault, and there is a demo of CTV as well.
Thank you for this.
given how difficult self-sovereign use of LN
Agreed. But, is any of that surprising? How many people run their own email server?
I just don't think there is much demand for it....(sadly)
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719 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 23 Nov
Agreed. But, is any of that surprising? How many people run their own email server?
Maybe they would if it wouldn't be so difficult because it got captured by big corporations
I just don't think there is much demand for it....(sadly)
You are right, because it is currently so difficult.
I think this is also related: If you ask users what they want (= demand), they will tell you they want the proverbial faster horse.
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100%
I certainly would like an easier way to use lightning/bitcoin.
I want to be able to
  • send/receive asynchronously (without needing to stay online)
  • without anyone being able to stop me
  • in amounts smaller than the dust limit
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why amounts smaller than the dust limits?
500 sats / 0.02 cents iiuc.
I mean do you have a specific use case?
there is always going to be some lower bound you know!
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By specifying the dust limit, I was trying to get at the need for some kind of way to accept small value payments.
While the dust limit is currently pretty low value, you'd have to be crazy to sell anything for such a payment size on chain. Honestly, I'd rather not have a utxo worth less than a million sats. If fees go up and I've been accepting 10k sat payments, I'm going to lose a lot of value consolidating.
I figure, any scheme for bitcoin that allows you to accept payment sizes below the dust limit necessarily fixes this problem.
Also stacker news and nostr zaps are great examples of micro payment use cases.
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105 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 25 Nov
A tangential issue: As you approach the low ends of dust limit (or below the dust limit), obviously the economic value becomes negligible.
This has the effect of lowering the risk to the point that its no longer really worth anyones effort to self-custody that.
"SQL" (which is how zaps work), becomes a fine solution at or below the dust limit, because the risk is so low.
The other viable alternative at that level is CashU.
I think its entirely possible that this is how the landscape eventually develops:
500,000+ SAT = BTC Mainchain 1000 to 500,000 SAT = LN .1 - 1000 SAT = SQL / Cashu / etc
17 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 25 Nov
I mean do you have a specific use case?
Stacker News.
I paid for this comment with 1 sat from my own node
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206 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 23 Nov
Why don't proponents of covenants first actually build some pressing new features using covenants and get people to buy-in to their vision.
They already did, I think you just aren't aware.
One more example next to what @Scoresby mentioned: there is a more efficient version of Ark that would use covenants iirc
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They already did, I think you just aren't aware.
Its true, I wasn't aware.
Perhaps people will clamor to use it? Or maybe not?
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 23 Nov
Perhaps people will clamor to use it? Or maybe not?
Hopefully before self-custody is too late
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11 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 23 Nov
Hopefully before self-custody is too late
Do you think that it will be impossible to run a L1 Bitcoin Core node soon? If so, why/how?
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17 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 23 Nov
It will be impossible to transact onchain for most people, the math just doesn't check out and they will be priced out of self-custody.
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Luke Dashjr's response:
Trustless self-custody isn't an issue today. Bitcoin can handle the present demand with room to spare (arguably too much room to spare, given the flagrant waste by spammers creating new, bigger problems).
What is an issue, is that the demand isn't there: people are all too happy to trust custodians, especially when faced with the challenges of self-custody.
Those problems are largely the result of big blocks and spam, and addressing those issues should be the immediate focus of developers looking to make Bitcoin successful.
The lack of attendance at "OP_NEXT" was, at least in my case, because it was a scamcoiner conference aimed at attacking and destroying Bitcoin.
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Is this a good time to propose a 4h block time?
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253 sats \ 3 replies \ @OT 23 Nov
It is hard to argue this stuff when 3 sats/vb are still going through.
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From what I can tell... the 'actual demand' for Blockspace (without runes or memecoins) is right now approximately 2 sats/vb.
2 sats/vb. Watch the mempool... when the runes interest dries up (on the weekends, typically saturdays) the demand for blockspace is typically pretty low although blocks remain completely full.
Imagine all the 'payments' all over the world simultaneously occurring 24/7 365. If there were 'that much demand' then the fee rates would be consistently higher, all the time even on the weekends or saturday nights (when it's sunday in Asia). There just 'isn't that much demand' yet and so it's hard to justify soft-forks, imo, where there is still, limited, real, monetary demand to transact.
And to the extent that lightning channels are cheap to open... and then use extensively it's even cheaper.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 24 Nov
He is right in that it can change very quickly. Nation states and companies might just find out the hard way about holding your keys.
I do think that lightning needs improvement so I think at some point we'll need a soft fork.
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I have a post on this...
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1100 sats \ 1 reply \ @jgbtc 23 Nov
He might be right, but without user demand we run the risk of bitcoin getting bloated with dev pet projects and features for hypothetical future scenarios that may not come to pass. He needs to trust that users will value self custody when the time comes instead of assuming the opposite. At the moment most people can self custody if they care to do so where is the need to rush things? Let's lower our time preference and keep talking about it for now.
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Why don't people 'self-custody' now? The altcoiners still exist and typical demand for blockspace (without runes) is around 2-3 sats/vb. To me that implies more 'education' is needed... not necessarily more features.
People aren't 'not choosing' to use Bitcoin because they have decided that 'opening a lightning channel' is 'too expensive' (as they spend 5$ on a Starbucks coffee).
They aren't using Bitcoin (hence the real monetary fees being low) specifically because they don't know about it.
Or they have been brainwashed by disinformation from the news... or they haven't been educated or caught on through intellectual curiosity.
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What is "graybeard" developers metaphor for? (I would assume you don't literally mean the color of someone's beard, as that is not something coding skills stem from.)
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It's time to activate CTV
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79 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 23 Nov
nah
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