Don't hope for a Global Collapse
23.6k sats \ 44 comments \ @kilianbuhn 22 Jul 2022 bitcoin
Hi there, quick comment:
It's infuriating to me that so many Bitcoiners want the world economy to collapse to adopt Bitcoin. And the same domino- and house of card metaphors, it's annoying.
I came to Bitcoin to see the world become a better place. And I still think it can and will do so. I guess (or at least hope so) that you do too!
You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Slow adoption with the fiat infrastructure slowly declining does not have to ruin the world!
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480 sats \ 0 replies \ @frostdragon 22 Jul 2022
I'm liking this community more and more.
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468 sats \ 1 reply \ @mikhael 22 Jul 2022
Finally, someone with their head on straight.
If anyone thinks a global collapse will finally help them not be a loser, they are sadly mistaken. Being a loser is a state of mind.
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147 sats \ 0 replies \ @sb 22 Jul 2022
I agree completely! A large proportion of Bitcoiners are undying optimists. We know the Fiat system is collapsing, but the slow collapse is ideal for a building a parallel economy on top of Bitcoin rails. We must humbly build and educate, not hope for the end of the world as we know it.
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229 sats \ 4 replies \ @nerd2ninja 22 Jul 2022
Bitcoiners and gold bugs alike do not wish for a global collapse. They simply recognize that the current system is unsustainable and will inevitably collapse without intervention. This is a common misconception.
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116 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 22 Jul 2022
I think the core of OG Bitcoiners are like that. Maybe more defensive and wanting more resilience to collapse - but not the collapse itself.
But there are definitely wings of our movements that went to far and wish for (or make prophecies about it every month) it. I bet that those people are still in a fiat mindset and became desperate about it (while true Bitcoiners, in fact, do not care if it's 20k or 60k or 100k). They never went deep into the technology or the economics - they just came for being contrarians. And they will go without any loyalty before Hyperbitcoinization becomes mainstream.
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15 sats \ 0 replies \ @kilianbuhn OP 22 Jul 2022
more resilience
That's a cool slogan, maybe we should push that.
On the other hand ”Bitcoin fixes this” is a slogan that includes that and more.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @zuspotirko 22 Jul 2022
Many gold bugs and preppers wish for collapse and think they would drive around mad max style and be the shit with 1 ounce gold coins. They don't get that useless yellow metal would be useless yellow metal, that they would get robbed way before Whe Walking Dead becomes real and why this cannot happen with 12 words in their head.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @03a90c212f 25 Jul 2022 freebie
Correct. Don’t pit the cart before the horse. We are cause of nothjng. We build life rafts, nothing more. Don’t confuse life raft builder with tsunami creator. They’re only related very loosely, thematically.
120 sats \ 1 reply \ @gms 22 Jul 2022
True, I don't believe in collapses even if everything seems like it.
I live in a country that has always been in crisis and although there are bad and extremely bad moments, nothing changes.
What would be the reason why governments want to give up control? In fact, I don't want to know anything about governments having bitcoin, why do they want governments to have bitcoin? to be more corrupt? to speculate and dump like Elon?
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @kilianbuhn OP 22 Jul 2022
I live in a country that has always been in crisis and although there are bad and extremely bad moments, nothing changes
I appreciate the perspective. Many people would learn a lot from living this experience.
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150 sats \ 7 replies \ @tomlaies 22 Jul 2022
I'm pretty annoyed by tHe gReAT rESeT conspiracy bullshit. Goes in the same direction. And the worst is how the spectrum from real facts to their bullshit is a spectrum. Like a water slide. I really hope the core of Bitcoin enthusiasts are still technocrats, cyberpunks, austrian economics and people with a vision. Stacker News is much better in this regard than Twitter.
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182 sats \ 4 replies \ @nerd2ninja 22 Jul 2022
Okay but the great reset is the IMF's fault. The video they released was a PR nightmare.
Despite that, the name is accurate. The idea of the IMF was when the next business cycle (debt cycle, credit crunch, end of that decades ponzi scheme take your pick) whenever the bail outs and subsidies are need to "stimulate economic growth" they would go towards "green" companies and so they created a system called ESG (Environmental Social Governance) scores kinda like credit scores (or social credit scores) that determine which businesses get subsidies and bail outs.
It doesn't help that the IMF said "You'll own nothing and be happy" in their video either...
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165 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 22 Jul 2022
I agree with you 100%.
Horrible PR. Horrible name. Why are they even interfering in sovereign nations the first place or making suggestions without having real power. And a horrible slogan.
But there is no International Jewish conspiracy that want's to drain the 2 thousand bucks on your personal dollar savings account, John from West Virgia. Also the "they" of the IMF are not the same people as the "they" of your deepstate lol or the "they" that steer inflation.
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205 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 22 Jul 2022
Ah...that's what you meant. Yeah those conspiracies are...very old.
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115 sats \ 1 reply \ @kilianbuhn OP 22 Jul 2022
It doesn't help that the IMF said "You'll own nothing and be happy" in their video either...
I do understand how some marketing idiot though that this would be a cool slogan.
Being happy? Yes please I want to be happy. And not owning stuff is awesome - using Uber is so convenient over having a car: it's always everywhere, it doesn't loose 50% of its value in the first year, it doesn't need repair all the time, gas price. Not owning furniture and moving into a finished apartment is awesome. Renting electric scooters is awesome. Etc. Possessions are dragging you down and one day you don't own stuff but the stuff owns you. Yes please I want to own nothing and be happy.
But it feels like a slap in the face when someone from the lower class who doesn't own a lot hears it. Or someone from the middle class struggling to keep his buying power in inflation hears this from some suit wearing rich person.
Maybe this was the worst decision of the decade.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeezSats 22 Jul 2022
It was more than marketing. It is a plan and the scenario was painted with that story of the girl living in the city with the surrendered acceptance of total surveillance and checkpointing, wondering what came of the people outside the cities who were "lost along the way"
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @om 22 Jul 2022
technocrats When were Bitcoiners ever technocrats?
cyberpunks You probably mean cypherpunks. I don't see how one can be a cypherpunk and a technocrat.
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150 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 22 Jul 2022
No, I meant cyberpunks.
By the meaning of how my community called itself before the game took the name hostage and before the name "cypherpunks" became popular with people who don't even know how to calculate RSA or Elliptic Curve or Diffie Hellman or DSA or ElGamal or any other basics about cryptography.
Cyberpunks which was the way bigger underground movement than cypherpunks before. With bigger goals, way more heterogeneous world views and much more chaotic actions and underground events in the community.
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242 sats \ 0 replies \ @sb 22 Jul 2022
It gives me hope that this post is garnering so much traction. Global collapse would be devastating for billions, including bitcoiners. Unfortunately, we are seeing - and will continue to see - local collapse (i e., Sri Lanka, Lebanon, Argentina etc). A lot of the blame should fall upon the global elites (WEF, IMF etc). The great reset, green agenda, cultural Marxism spreading around the planet is a huge black pill. Bitcoin is the future monetary renaissance - we must orange pill the billions, not the billionaires.
The Fiat system is resilient and relentless. Bitcoin is forever. Time is on our side.
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125 sats \ 2 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 22 Jul 2022
I think the "wanting to watch the world burn" is only surface level. Bitcoin came about as an experiment / idea directly related to the financial corruption of the world. It's not so much that Bitcoiners all want to see the world burn; it's an acknowledgement that this cannot continue.
Fiat will crash under its own weight, perhaps multiple dumps / jumps in the coming years. Our economies are divorced from reality, and I honestly fear some of these collapse scenarios while at the same time thinking they're inevitable.
I know some bitcoiners have whale stacks and would love to be mega-wealthy (in whatever new paradigm may arise), maybe some portion is actively a Nero type watching the world burn. But most people who are not these types are not saying "crash so we can foist bitcoin on you"... it's more like "this is inevitable for the love of god get some bitcoin"
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @nkmg1c_ventures 22 Jul 2022
Also, the general corruption / untenability of the current system should eventually be exposed, IMO. I think it would be far more countries and governments took BTC seriously before some big crash, it may help. But history tells us people will only really want to put out the fire when it's raging and the entire room is up in flames.
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5 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lumor 23 Jul 2022
It's more motivating to run away from something bad for most people, than just running toward something good.
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110 sats \ 0 replies \ @03dccd5b48 23 Jul 2022 freebie
Thank you for this post.
People who wish for this are just plain stupid. If this were to occur, many would be in for a world of hurt.
There is no reason Bitcoin can’t rise, and greatly succeed without a collapse of the financial system.
If you don’t believe this, you haven’t spent enough time learningh about the power of Bitcoin!
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5 sats \ 0 replies \ @mrldotsh 23 Jul 2022
This is the way!
Yes, our Fiat based system causes most of problems we see and experience today.
But a total collapse would be horrible.
Bitcoin could be there to help rebuild everything. But only if the collapse does not wipe out too much. In some of the scenarios some people draw out there, Bitcoin wouldn't be your first priority anymore. Your focus would be on how to survive the next couple of days, if not hours.
I don't want to focus on such scenarios.
A slow, somewhat predictable migration would be much more healthy.
It will still cause a lot of headaches. Not doubt about that.
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3 sats \ 0 replies \ @024d9d4496 23 Jul 2022
Вы сильно верите в мир. Он может рухнуть от дуновения ветерка рядом с головой дктатора. Война в моей стране тому пример.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BeardedSaintRef 25 Jul 2022
We’ve trusted a system that we’ve been taught and have been conditioned to believe in. It’s time we start re-educating people about the true freedoms that Bitcoin brings.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sp 25 Jul 2022
With the plague of techno-stalinism fueled by fiat money+cantillon effect, the collapse seems inevitable.
I am not personally hoping this is going to happen, I'm rather alerting everyone I love of this impending disaster, and I prefer it will happen sooner - and faster - than later.
The destruction by socialism and anti-market ideals can happen in a few months, yet it will need generations to be reversed. Capital accumulation - necessary to increase the value of work for time-unit - is a slow inter-generational process built with the abundance that socialism is created to steal.
Imagine how much capital was needed to build our existing infrastructure (power implants, bridges, railways, stock markets) and how letting them rot and crumble will be way worse than taking care of them. Following this principle, the faster the collapse, the better!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @pi 24 Jul 2022
It's not the world economy they want to see collapsing but what they identify as the underlying rigged and unfair system. Also, they are confident to have a better alternative, so it's not just about collapse and then chaos, but rather a rebirth. We all know that birthing can be a painful and stressful experience, but it's worth it.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @pony 23 Jul 2022
you have to destroy the old to create new
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @selfish_gene 23 Jul 2022
за все существование биткоина! это первый и по истене отличный комментарий!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptoanonymous 23 Jul 2022
the current system is so canibalist i think is impossible to evade from this, we are in a non retorn point with some basic prime materia.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 23 Jul 2022
what we hope for and what will happen are two different things, its not like if most bitcoiners are positive it makes a difference, it will collapse regardless. And also what is the definition of collapse? Ask a Lebanese, Zimbabwean or Sri Lankan if they're waiting for a collapse, ask the people living on the street in any country, ask the people who never recovered from the cypress bail-in, or 08 crisis
its already here mate, the fact that certain people in G7 nations have the luxury to sit on the internet and mouth off, is no a consensus
As someone in the "developing world' a collapse is not the end of the world, humans will adapt. Experiencing pain is part of life, the putting off of pain or pushing it on to places where we don't see it doesn't mean its not collapsed
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BeardedSaintRef 23 Jul 2022
“Slow adoption with the fiat infrastructure slowly declining does not have to ruin the world!”
-the fiat system has already ruined the world
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryptocoin 22 Jul 2022
Let's say you have built a house on some land and then some realtor comes along showing you maps that indicate that your house is in a flood zone and as a result of the next 100 year storm the occupants face injury or death and the building will be severely damaged if not totally destroyed. Yet instead of cutting your losses you add on to the house, and add to your family living in that house. But the realtor continues to share this information publicly to all.
I as your nearest grocer though might come here on SN and bitch about realtors "hoping for a 100 year storm" to come in order to pump their real-estate offerings.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin 22 Jul 2022
i.e., We don't want global economic collapse, but fiat central bank currencies are a flawed concept and will cause many dependent on them to become rekt when the inevitable happens. Don't shoot the messenger.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeezSats 22 Jul 2022
The global collapse is underway and has been for a couple years already. It looks sudden in hindsight but you can easily live through it and see the other side.
The other side is a bitcoin renaissance and I can totally understand why one would be impatient for the collapse to accelerate so that we can get it out of the way.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @EnormousPony 22 Jul 2022
You need to destroy something to build upon its ashes
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105 sats \ 3 replies \ @kilianbuhn OP 22 Jul 2022
Why ashes tho? Why do you want make peoples lives worse? People already struggle and Bitcoin fixes this, not make it worse.
Give people the opportunity to save money right now and make peoples lives better right now.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @EnormousPony 22 Jul 2022
Because it's the history of mankind, every empire, civilization or society collpase or fall. From the remains something else, usually better, rises.
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5 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 22 Jul 2022
Afaict most empires decline and don't collapse: France, Spain, Holland, Britain.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @tomlaies 22 Jul 2022
All of which are still nice countries to live in. Not perfect of course. But pretty nice.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sandbeach123old 25 Jul 2022 freebie
It's all about extremes. 2008 crisis showed regular people (who gave their trust to big banks and the gov) lost a lot. That was excessive trust, and yes bitcoin aims to zero trust, but having a 0 trust financial system is also bad (I can imagine no loans based on merits/trust). Like most things, the right way is something in the middle.
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @03a90c212f 25 Jul 2022 freebie
It’s not us setting those conditions. It’s banks, legacy finance, etc. And they are doing a great job of making a collapse come ever nearer.
If anything, we are hoping for the end of their abusive, slave-holding reign. That it comes through a transition to the neutral, in-gameable bitcoin standard is what we want. Whether that transition will be painful or not is really entirely up to them, since they gave the power of current-system resources to shape HOW it will be, if not that it will be.
That it will be — this is already fated. We don’t know how, when, what will be the tipping point. But it will be. And it will have been entirely their doing.
We are life raft builders, nothjng more. We didn’t make the tsunami, the undersea earthquake, nothing else. Just the life raft.
0 sats \ 0 replies \ @linesgone 23 Jul 2022 freebie
Yes. Agee!
However there is something that feels relevant from William Gibson’s “The Peripheral” of his story idea of “The Jackpot”. Basically it was a apocalyptic period for society, the economy, the climate and infrastructure that fundamentally separated the two time periods in his story (and which involved time travel”)…
Anyway, it’s a moment of massive change. The period they proceeded it was unsustainable and hit a wall, literally… and the only way move forward was to completely change everything.
Society does feel like it’s on that path. The 20th century was fairly unsustainable and so many system need to be rethought and rebuilt, not just technology… culture as well. I don’t think I see “the great” reset coming in the way the IMF did… but I see a massive change coming, which some will fight and some will embrace… it will make the next 300 years but will leave many behind, grasping to the way things used to be.
When I hear talk of Bitcoiners, even on the more extreme end, I think this. Son of us understand that massive change is at hand and we embrace it and want to have a seat at the table of it… as opposed to just being taken for a ride.