How Low Will We Go? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

578 sats \ 21 comments \ @OT 25 Feb bitcoin

One of the only friends I've managed to orange pill has finally sent his bitcoin to cold storage. He has been DCAing through Relai for a few years now.

The problem is that he sent it at a low fee as he didn't want to pay too much, and since he'll be holding it for many years, does mind waiting a month or so for it to confirm.

I wished he had asked me before sending it at around 4sats/vb. My fear is that it may never clear and he'll have to pay a lot more to reattempt later on.

All his inputs are small as he set a 10 Euro per week DCA plan, and Relai does everything on chain. What I'm trying to say is that its a heavy send with over 100 inputs.

I'm thinking of boosting it with an out of band payment... But would prefer not to as its going to cost about half a million sats.

My advice for him has since changed to stack over lightning. Still looking for a solution to do this in Europe.

It will be a good learning experience for him as he hasn't really been that interested. I'm glad that he stuck with it and I'll continue to pray to Satoshi that it eventually gets in a block.

So my question is... How low will we go? 6sats/vb? 3sats/vb 1sat/vb?

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1101 sats \ 0 replies \ @endothermicdev 25 Feb

Whether or not the transactions eventually clear, they need to be consolidated be they become dust permanently. Those are two separate problems.

The mempool will relay CPFP transactions spending these right now. I would try to kill two birds with one stone and spend many of the small unconfirmed transactions while also boosting the effective feerate to at least 8 or 9 sats/vbyte. That's about the cheapest feerate I would feel comfortable with. Just do the math on the total vbytes of all transactions and make sure the child aggregation tx pays enough fee to effectively boost the total average feerate to your target.

137 sats \ 4 replies \ @03479d0ee6 25 Feb

PocketBitcoin has LN buy option. About the stats/vB i would not count on them remaining low I think 10/15 might be as low as we get.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 25 Feb

Don't they require running your own node?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @03479d0ee6 25 Feb

I don't think so, they require Breez or Phoenix wallet.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT OP 25 Feb

Mmm, I didn't see the buy LN option on their website. I'll contact them though

Thanks!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @03479d0ee6 25 Feb

https://pocketbitcoin.com/lightning

122 sats \ 2 replies \ @TheBTCManual 25 Feb

fees are pretty reasonable these days 11-15 sats per vbyte is not bad, doubt it gets much lower than that, the pool is still pretty full so yeah who knows how long before a miner sees that and thinks fine I'll add it in.

You're only going to end up shooting yourself in the foot with these small UTXOs, it's going to cost you a fortune to move them in the future and you'll also have to factor in coin consolidation transactions.

The easiest option is to delay withdrawals till you hit a certain amount, or buy your DCA in bigger increments. Relai did announce they are launching a breez SDK with greenlight too so you can have a LN wallet with them soon, where you hold the keys to the wallet but the node is managed by blockstream, that could be the solve for this

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT OP 25 Feb

Yeah, this is something that was good advice a few years ago that has since turned out to be wrong.

I'm not from Europe but had heard good things about Relai. So buying week by week 10 euros is fast becoming dust as Bitcoins dollar value rises and fees too. Relai verifies each buy order can be proved on chain and the ironic thing is that using a sh$tcoin casino like Binance or Kraken would not have had this withdrawal problem.

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 25 Feb

Lol yeah I totally feel that last point, I do P2P when there are good deals but for my DCA I use a local shitcoin casino because there's a decent order book, I can do my limit orders on there too and the fees are cheap since they subsidised by all that shitcoin trading fees

We don't have any Bitcoin only places to use in South Africa, Drain the exchange by any means necessary

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @Quasianon 25 Feb

Relai is coming out with lightning very soon. Pocket has it already. Robosats is always preferred but not as intuitive.

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 25 Feb

Good luck! I just paid +300k in sats to consolidate a lot of utxos at about 14 to 18 sats/vb.

It was painful but now I limited my fee burden for the future.

No more small DCA utxos to cold storage for me. A very expensive lesson

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 25 Feb

I'm sure spam money isn't infinite because Bitcoin supply isn't infinite and we eventually get back to 1 sat/vByte

With low amount DCA we should neglect the security. In my case I DCA daily on exchange and when collect significant amount of sats send it to cold storage

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @badabing 25 Feb

It might just get cleared before the halving..

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fabs 25 Feb

"It will be a good learning experience for him"

An expensive one for sure.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @nichro 25 Feb

If it's too low won't his transaction simply get purged out of the mempool?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT OP 25 Feb

It's possible. But if other mempools don't it will remain there. Probably Relai have something set up in case of a large fee spike, but haven't looked into that yet.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SaToSHiWoMaN 25 Feb outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.

65 sats \ 3 replies \ @sdf 25 Feb

deleted by author

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT OP 25 Feb

Robosats is ideal, but he will need to pay in larger amounts and also need to use a tor browser. Not sure what phone he's using but from my experience its unusable on apple devices.

Mostro I can have a look at.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @037447d9ca 25 Feb

if he can't even use tor with his toy phone he needs to buy another one then buy bitcoin properly

108 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT OP 25 Feb

We all started somewhere

He's one of the only people I've managed to orange pill. He'll get there eventually