reply on: Is Self Custodial Bitcoin Possible Outside of the Main Chain? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @toyota_corolla0 16 Feb \ on: Is Self Custodial Bitcoin Possible Outside of the Main Chain? bitcoin

In my opinion Ark like solutions are the most promising for scaling self custodial bitcoin. This video gives a good technical explanation of ark.

I see ark as promising for self-custody but less promising for use in payments.

25 sats \ 5 replies \ @Murch 16 Feb

A mechanism that requires you to bump your VTXO every few weeks lest you lose them to the ASP feels a bit awkward for the most promising approach for self-custody

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @toyota_corolla0 16 Feb

Yes, the default parameters that have been announced wouldn't work well for self custody. When I say Ark, I really mean the concept of what Ark does. I imagine that the block height lock for the ASP to reclaim could be changed to a much longer time for a transaction tree that wants long term self custody. This could be offset by the ASP by requiring higher fees if a participant in the tree wants to leave earlier. (Disclaimer, I am not an expert)

25 sats \ 3 replies \ @Murch 17 Feb

Isn't the lock time though synonymous with the amount of time that the ASP has to lock up their own funds in parallel for the unilateral exit from the Ark? I.e. longer locking would mean that the ASP has to have way more capital

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @toyota_corolla0 17 Feb

The ASP needs extra funds starting from the redemption of a VTXO till when the ASP is able to sweep the UTXO. The ASP could charge a VTXO redemption fee equal to VTXO amount * some ASP decided interest rate * time till ASP has ability to sweep UTXO.

Basically users of the ASP would have to pay interest on the capital that the ASP has to lock up because of the user.

25 sats \ 1 reply \ @Murch 17 Feb

So holding in an ASP would incur a fee relative to the amount held there, slowly bleeding away your holdings. That seems at adds with wanting to hold a lot of funds for a long period.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @toyota_corolla0 17 Feb

Though the fee is also relative to how long the ASP has to provide captial for your VTXO.

For example, if the ASP provided an ARK with a 1 year sweep time, a user planning to self custody their funds for at least a year would join the tree, wait till maybe two weeks till ASP can sweep, then redeem to a new tree. This way they would only pay interest for 2 weeks of time.

Its important to note that all the users participating in these ARKs would be doing so because they believe the net fees they would have to pay to be in the ARK would still be cheaper than standard self-custody through an onchain transaction fee. This would likely only be true for small-medium amounts so its unlikely any very large amounts would ever participate in these ARKs.