Don't get me wrong, I like the premise of a mining pool where the individual miner gets to build their own blocks and payouts come directly from the Bitcoin network...
BUT, can Ocean really be called 'decentralized' if there's a core team running it, promoting it, and raising capital? During their launch event they even said they'd need to (at times) push out payments manually if under a certain threshold.
I'm on the fence. Push me off.
Certainly it is not 100% decentralized. The word decentralized is often misused. Even Bitcoin is not 100% decentralized. But I believe in those who try their best to decentralize as much as possible with the existing resources. This will take a long time and may never be 100% decentralized.
I've grown to loathe the word decentralized. It's become a religious term, and people have broadly forgotten what it's meant to be in service of -- if they ever knew in the first place.
I agree 100% but this is what humans do to just about every word/concept/etc.
e.g.:
I can't disagree.
Here is great podcast episode by Stephan with a deep dive into "the" Ocean ;) https://stephanlivera.com/episode/528/
From what I read, they don't claim to be decentralized, they simply are helping to decentralize mining.
I don't think you can have a truly 100% decentralized mining pool, as you would need someone to control the hardware for connectivity at a minimum.
Maybe some kind of P2P mining?
Yeah, I admit I may have been reacting to what others have been saying. After reading again their website says their mission is to “radically decentralize Bitcoin mining.” I think it’s a step in that direction anyway.
Dont let perfect be the enemy of better 🤙
📠
I bet Stratum V2 will have a bigger impact than Ocean in miners’ decentralization
Now, Ocean WITH Stratum V2 sounds promising. It should arrive next year
DEMAND pool supports Stratum V2 and is available today. https://x.com/bitentrepreneur/status/1730350206317703648?s=12
Is their aim to be a completely decentralized mining pool or to help further decentralize mining?
Right. Let's say that then. Rather than, "we are already there." To be fair, I may be conflating what others are saying about Ocean, rather than what the team is saying themselves.
Answering directly to your question: no, they're not decentralized. Answering with more context: no, they're not and they're doing exactly what some topics ago we were discussing or what Stratum v2 is really trying to resolve. If the first block they mined, they used filters[1] to prevent certain types of transactions THEY don't like. I'll assume their hashraters didn't like also.
In fact, it's funny how these things works, Luke Dash in the past put biblical verses without asking anyone and without pay. And now they want to filter with their
OP_RETURNversion. Come on, man.A fancy way to say censorship ↩
Yes, it's quite ironic. Humans will be humans. Thanks for the links to references. Much appreciated.
Others have said something similar in this thread but I'll just reiterate: "decentralization" is a spectrum.
What next? Does it pass the howe test?
Heh heh. That's funny.
they haven’t claimed that the pool is decentralized. The claim is that it helps bitcoin be more decentralized than it is now.
Not massively aware of what Ocean purport to be but in my estimation it's this.
I keep having this thought in my head. If everyone who lived in North or South of the tropics that uses a heater in winter used a miner to provide heat, how much of a dent would that put into the centralization of mining pools. I know I'm not the first to think that but the thought in itself illustrates the point. Pools form. It's healthy. But so is the fundamental human right to burn electricity with fiat.
It couldn’t hurt. I have been wanting to try this.
Someone on Nostr said that it's not decentralized at all, just faster payments. I asked what he would consider decentralized: ”When there's not a single centralized party that controls everything about block building and payouts”.
Would everyone agree that these are criteria for decentralized mining pools?
Its closed source. Pass.
This.
They are not saying they won't disclose de code, they are not saying it will remain undisclosed. We will need to wait and see.
what pool are you using instead ?
I don't mine.
As of right now it's not decentralized. Future promise it's it will be (?). I recommend you talk to Luke and WK directly in their IRC channel @ irc.freenode.net #OCEAN
Given the current mining scene dominated by shitcoiners and grifters, this could be the best we have. I mined with braiins until they decided to toss us out to the lions.
I wouldn't say decentralized, but strictly talking, to add a new pool is a contribution to widen te distribution of hashrate (as long as they are succsesful recruiting miners), the most interesting to see from my pow is what they call phase 2. All the rest looks quite similar, like payment thresholds, custody while it is achieved (an escrow would have been nicer)> It's going to be interesting to see how they evolve, but a new pool with different model is always good
decentralized is such a bastardised term, what does it mean? What is meaningfully decentralised? OCEAN just gives individual miners more autonomy and to do tasks that were originally part of being a miner but was outsource to pools
might be a step in the right direction.
Not sure.
But i will say that we're seeing more hash rate pointed towards ocean. I guess that will continue this week, but it will be interesting to see how much the market values this model over their profits.
Hope they add braidpool - https://github.com/braidpool/braidpool
(more) decentralized than fully centralized :)
I think they claim to increase decentralization, not to "be" decentralized
The term "decentralized" can be nuanced. While Ocean offers individual miners direct payouts, the presence of a core team managing operations and intervention for low threshold payments may raise questions on its complete decentralization. This hybrid model blurs the line between centralized and decentralized structures.
Not more than any other mining pool tbh
I suppose time will tell.
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Hmm, yeah... This doesn't answer the question. But sats for the attempt.
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