Nic Carter On Bitcoin Maxis and Religion \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Nic Carter On Bitcoin Maxis and Religion twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1666294372537606145

6171 sats \ 52 comments \ @fbv000 7 Jun 2023 bitcoin

739 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 7 Jun 2023

I'm sometimes ambivalent about the toxicity of bitcoin maximalists, myself included. I'm also not going to say he doesn't make a valid point about the almost religious way some of us worship bitcoin, but Nic Carter has his own agenda here. He makes his money off of altcoins. He doesn't understand why bitcoiners are happy to see Binance and Coinbase get attacked, while in the same tweet talks about shilling icos! That's the problem. People have been victimized by these companies. His "why can't we all get along" attitude about these exchanges doesn't address the human pain those companies caused,( the shilling, the front running, the wash trades), nor his role in that pain.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 7 Jun 2023

I agree that bitcoin maximalism shouldn't be based on axioms. I believe in God, everyone else needs to bring evidence. I think given available evidence, bitcoin is the best option available. If something better comes along, we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot to ignore it. If someone wants to convince me that his shitcoin is awesome, I'm willing to hear him out, but since I used to collect shitcoins as if they were pokemon - gotta catch them all - I already know which questions to ask.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 7 Jun 2023

I also think he has a good point about religion here.

But I think he uses it in this way: "It sounds too crazy to be true".

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinFoqus 8 Jun 2023

The classic, "Please let us scam in peace"

951 sats \ 13 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 7 Jun 2023

Attacking Coinbase and Binance is government overreach. We should all be upset about that while simultaneously being happy that bitcoin is much less fragile than shitcoins.

259 sats \ 2 replies \ @PlebeiusG 7 Jun 2023

Overreach because you don’t think the government should be involved, period? (as in the SEC should be abolished?)

Or overreach because you don’t think the SEC is following their mandate and is over stepping?

Also, have you read the lawsuit the SEC filed?

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @mudbloodvonfrei 7 Jun 2023

Truth is, I didn't read the lawsuit so I might be missing something important. I'm not hard core libertarian, so I am not opposed to all government intervention, but I think the bar needs to be high. Do I think shitcoins are a poor investment? Sure. Do I think they're all a priori fraudulent? No. Most are, but some aren't, and those are none of the government's business.

If someone is creating a fraudulent asset then the law should pursue that person/company/entity. It seems like overreach to go after a business that provides a platform for trading something, regardless of how I feel about that thing. Especially since there are p2p exchanges that "allow" the same activity if for no other reason than that they are difficult to shut down. It's like suing a farmer's market because some farmers are selling weed to consenting adults.

There are many things I find distasteful, but that's not a high-enough bar for me to prefer government intervention.

Please tell me what you think I got wrong though!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 7 Jun 2023

As I understand, scammers are as old as time itself. Years ago the government put in place certain “investor protection” laws that make it harder to scam people. A lot of this has to do with honest disclosure of how the “investment” works and ensures that customer/investor funds aren’t treated carelessly.

Some of these investments are called securities and are considered so if they pass the Howey Test - if there is an "investment of money in a common enterprise with a reasonable expectation of profits to be derived from the efforts of others."

It seems like the majority of crypto tokens were scams or poorly executed to ride the hype wave, and the rest were actually unregistered securities pretending to be new tech and competes with Bitcoin itself. A core team of developers worked on a private network whose goal was to return profits for early investors. That’s not illegal, but there are things you MUST disclose to your investors in order to prevent such abhorrent fraud as we’ve seen so much of à la FTX, et al.

29 sats \ 8 replies \ @sudonaka 7 Jun 2023

Disagree. Sure it would be overreach in a true libertarian society. But unfortunately that’s not the current USA. The SEC in this case is actually enforcing laws on the books.

Reform of education and the political system is needed.

Also, since the shitcoinery has been spurred on by the fiat mindset, it is Justice that the fiat system would destroy the shitcoins on its way to destroy itself.

319 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 7 Jun 2023

I don't believe the actions of these exchanges would be acceptable in a libertarian society either. Fraud and breach of contract by front running, wash trading and pump and dump schemes are acts of aggression brought against innocent people.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @SpaceHodler 7 Jun 2023

I don't know if they would, it depends on what the contract is. Wash trading per se is not breach of contract, it doesn't require any contract. If I'm trading with myself and people watch something that's publicly visible and think it's two different people, that's their problem that they're making unfounded assumptions.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 7 Jun 2023

Two different principles. Maybe the way I worded it was imprecise. You are correct re a contract, but fraud, in and of itself, violates the aggression principle. Wash trades are fraud because they materially misrepresent to a trader the buy and sell activity of the asset. Wow! It's been many years since I have talked libertarianism! It's like the old days.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 7 Jun 2023

What if someone sells a monkey jpeg NFT for $1m worth of shitcoins to themselves on a blockchain? The jpeg goes from one eth address to another, and addresses are online identities, which as far as I'm aware, cypherpunks defend the right of the individual to have many of, and the right to reveal them selectively.

It only misrepresents the buy and sell activity if you make assumptions as to what that activity is. But in that case it's you who creates that misrepresentation, and for yourself only.

The idea of a permissionless blockchain (regardless of how permissionless and decentralized the blockchain in question actually is) is that you can do whatever you want on it and none of it is fraud, as long as you don't tie yourself up in [legal] contracts. In that case the smart contracts are the only 'law' and you can interact with them however you wish. You can't breach them by definition (because they're defined by their code), and if they contain a bug that makes them work not the way their author intended, it means the author screwed up rather than that you breached them.

If I guess your Bitcoin private key and move your coins to my wallet it's morally questionable, but it's not theft from the blockchain's POV, because who owns the keys owns the coins. From that POV it's your problem and your fault, because you didn't use enough entropy, or used a technology that wasn't secure enough etc.

Implying that any blockchain activity at all, in the absence of a legal contract, is breach of contract, defeats the point of a permissionless blockchain and opens a statist can of worms.

Binance is a CEX, so it's a different world, legal contracts may be in place and much of the above may not apply, but we're talking about wash trading in the most general sense of the term, without any legal contracts implied.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 7 Jun 2023

I think we're talking apples and oranges. I'm not discussing defi. I'm talking centralized exchanges. The fraud in a wash trade is a centralized exchange creating artificial fomo by giving the impression that everyone is rushing in to buy a particular asset. It is in fact a fictional market, when it represents itself as making an actual market.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @sudonaka 7 Jun 2023

Good point I agree. If only there was some kind of proposed libertarian society with limited government regulation that could achieve that kind of sweet spot…

It would probably be some kind of republic based representative system with balanced political power described exactly by the constitution written by the people of the United States of America.

Unfortunately we are currently far removed from that 🤦‍♂️

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 7 Jun 2023

Yes. A long way. We have to make do with baby steps.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 7 Jun 2023

Anyone can reform their education if they want to and it's no one else's business.

As for the political system, it should be destroyed. In self-defense.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiracDelta 8 Jun 2023

If a shitcoiner is killed in their own home by one of the victims of their crimes, I imagine you will be the first to call them a fake capitalist for calling the police and mention how it is government overreach for the police to be involved?

I really hate all these bad-faith LIARS who would not say these things. Liberty-LARPers

549 sats \ 0 replies \ @FrickFrickFrick 7 Jun 2023 freebie

The guy with the hedge fund involved in a truckload of altcoins and has been trying to push the operation chokepoint 2.0 narrative down Bitcoiners throats like that's our problem too wants to provide commentary on Bitcoin maxi's because they advocate for the destruction of the very things he props his hedge fund up on?

I personally will pass, but thanks for the feedback Nic.

184 sats \ 1 reply \ @orthwyrm 7 Jun 2023

I find these "toxic maxi" debates incredibly boring because it's nothing but generalizations targeting the lowest common denominator on Twitter.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 7 Jun 2023

Notice how every time something collapses in "crypto" world we get the same crowd coming out writing missives about how hypocritical maxis are for not supporting broader "crypto". There is a lesson there.

259 sats \ 0 replies \ @TonyGiorgio 7 Jun 2023

Man, we really must have caused him irreparable mental damage since he last freaked out and bleached his hair.

130 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 7 Jun 2023

There's a conception myth. Bitcoin was created in a uniquely perfect and fair way, nothing else can come close to that, and nothing like that can ever exist again. Only Satoshi's divine Proof of Work and lack of premine can foster a truly global decentralized commodity money.

What's a myth about this?

Also, tweets like these make me believe I want a link filter. Most of the stuff I see from twitter is like this.

@k00b, what do you think? (just thinking out loud)

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @m00ninite 7 Jun 2023

My experience on the internet would be markedly improved if I could filter Twitter links out of all sites, apps, and chat rooms. Truly a noise-only place.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 7 Jun 2023

Same. Most of the times, "news" are just some dudes fighting on twitter lol

35 sats \ 0 replies \ @snakedye 7 Jun 2023

What's a myth about this?

Bitcoin is a man made protocol. It's not the gospel. Satoshi isn't a prophet.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @mudbloodvonfrei 7 Jun 2023

Bitcoin isn't perfect. It's just better than the other options, including fiat. Maybe something better will come along, but the burden of evidence is on the newcomer.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 7 Jun 2023

Ah oh, I didn't read it properly, lol. I missed the "perfect" and ignored the "divine".

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 7 Jun 2023

I support adding things like word and link filters. @janetyellen requested this at one point.

148 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 7 Jun 2023

(Of course, there's a kernel of truth to everything here, but there's a vast difference between plain observations and the crafting of a literal secular cult around these ideas).

"They're right but they should be right in a dispassionate way and cash in on cantillionomics like me."

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @ez 7 Jun 2023

what a pseudointellectual garbage

81 sats \ 0 replies \ @geobodine 7 Jun 2023

All you need to know about the Nic story. Surprised people are still giving him oxygen. I don't read any of his output anymore due to his obvious self involved agendas.

91 sats \ 0 replies \ @BITC0IN 7 Jun 2023

TLDR Cry Harder

84 sats \ 0 replies \ @Dash_1971 7 Jun 2023

Carter's just young enough to still know everything. His star will keep rising till it doesn't. I'll listen to what he says when he's been round the block a few more times.

72 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog 7 Jun 2023

He misses the entire point for me, and others I know. Bitcoin is important because it allows us to pull the rug from the current system, and it is a beacon for core values shared by bitcoiners: decentralization and self sovereignty. Its those values that bring bitcoiners together , not number go up or to the moon BS.

Bitcoin is just a tool, but it also exemplifies the return of core values that are solely missing in today's society. That's why bitcoin is a rallying cry for many.

70 sats \ 0 replies \ @0245bdaef2 7 Jun 2023

Who gives a shit what that clown says?

52 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 7 Jun 2023

While Nic articulates some valid points, his argument is solely driven by his perverse incentives. He found out that he could gain much more fiat riches by being a crypto VC and supporting "innovation" versus being a bitcoin maxi and moral human.

So while I am happy to read his incessant ramblings about maxis and maxi culture and how big of hypocrites we are that we don't support the "crypto" people that have been trying to suppress and undermine bitcoin for years, it is all a bunch of hogwash and looking for someone to blame for "crypto" putting itself in this position. It's akin to blaming the mfer who refused to get in the car with the drunk driver for the inevitable crash.

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @MarkMulvey 7 Jun 2023

i stopped reading about halfway through this self-aggrandizing missive but it's quite the strawman my goodness

i don't know anyone cheering for this, even people (like me) who don't use or like coinbase/binance

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @sudonaka 7 Jun 2023

HFSP shitcoiner (tweeter, not OP)

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @ursuscamp 7 Jun 2023

His industry is in flames and he is spending his time fighting an insignificant online culture war. What a waste

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @satyagraha 7 Jun 2023

There are few important bitcoin companies and casinos aren't any of them.

But whatever, it takes to feed Nic's unique and better opinion of himself.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kepford 7 Jun 2023

For context Nic used to be very popular with the maximalists then he started shilling shipcoins and they turned on him. It seems to have broken him in a deep way.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @2bithits 7 Jun 2023

TL;DR

I skimmed through it, he seems upset

1 sat \ 2 replies \ @iguano 7 Jun 2023

Not sure what is worst. the maximalism, or the anti-maximalism. just stack sats and ignore the noise. you will be alright.

2 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 7 Jun 2023

The anti is worse. By far. I agree with you, ignore the noise. Honestly, these anti maxi guys are wasting so much energy. It makes far more sense to ignore the maximalists if you hate them so much.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 8 Jun 2023

The funny part is that bitcoiners are just saying that altcoins are scams and when they get scammed they hate us more lol.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @moel 8 Jun 2023

I don’t know if he is sublimely trolling or just serious.

There's an eschatology – the fiat apocalypse / hyperinflation / great debt bubble is coming and no financial asset will be spared, except for the Chosen One (Bitcoin). After the rapture, the Bitcoiners will inherit the earth, and a handful of sats in your wallet today will buy city blocks in the future. You may be a mere pleb today, but you are a baron tomorrow.

There's rituals: making the pilgrimage to El Salvador to make a lightning payment at McDonalds, sweltering in the heat at Bitcoin Miami to see your gurus spout platitudes on stage, paying some twitter influencer $500 for a gristly cut of steak, listening to the same six podcasts host the same dozen guests week in, week out.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 8 Jun 2023

I really thought that this huge screed was from a parody account - I checked - and OMG!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Chep 7 Jun 2023

Didn't read all that and I'm still not selling any bitcoin :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 7 Jun 2023

To Clarify the Joke, Bitcoin is not a Religious Cult

Nic Carter as a Venture Capitalist, is thinking in terms of industry and that just doesn't work here.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 7 Jun 2023

worth a read

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebLab 7 Jun 2023

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