Umbrel is getting into hardware \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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3442 sats \ 42 comments \ @kenn_b 30 May 2023 bitcoin

Looks like Umbrel has ventured out into providing some hardware for its OS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIcddM6YFug

Not sure what to make of it. Whenever a software company starts making hardware without any prior experience, it could end badly.

The claims are quite impressive, but so is the price tag (600+ eur): We built Umbrel Home from scratch to address all the Raspberry Pi-based home server limitations, and surpassed them in all aspects: up to 3x faster CPU, 6.5x SSD speeds, 2x more RAM, and an even smaller form-factor. No more corrupted microSD cards, and no manual assembly or setup required.

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917 sats \ 0 replies \ @bitslinger 30 May 2023

I bought a refurbished PC, put linux on it and downloaded their software. Runs smooth. $300.

541 sats \ 0 replies \ @IanMalcolmPhd 30 May 2023

They don't accept Bitcoin lol

850 sats \ 2 replies \ @gnilma 30 May 2023

I would assume that they have a hardware production partner, like how Start9 partners with Purism to make their Pro machines. I wasn’t able to find that info on their site though… maybe Umbrel is actually doing it themselves?

And why do they not accept Bitcoin as payment for their machines? That is just a bad move…

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @xanny 30 May 2023

They'll definitely have a white label deal with some ODM.

I'm more concerned with the fact that Umbrel's platform is already closed source and now they're just gonna make more closed source hardware. We have enough of that already.

Start9 working with Purism is good - they make every layer of the stack as open as it can be, e.g. custom open source EFI bootloaders.

With Umbrel's software not being FOSS I don't see any reason their hardware will be. Could even be from a super cheap supplier in China who preloads malware on it, there's plenty of those around on Alibaba.

As you said they haven't disclosed where the hardware is coming from so who knows?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 30 May 2023

Which is exactly why I only keep an experimental amount of sats on my Umbrel running on Pi 4 and have much more sats sitting on my Embassy Pro.

Umbrel seems to be in the camp of move fast and break things. The sheer number of apps added to their app store in the past year seems to align with this ethos. I would be very cautious and would limit the amount of sats I put on an Umbrel if I use one as a Lightning node.

660 sats \ 6 replies \ @ncryppt 30 May 2023

I am not surprised at all. Expensive, and tbh umbrel runs just fine on my rpi4. But they gotta make some money somehow, good for umbrel!

754 sats \ 5 replies \ @sime 30 May 2023

Targetting the none hardware tinkerers is a win for all of us. More nodes, stronger bitcoin.

1 sat \ 3 replies \ @kevin 31 May 2023

I don't think many non hardware tinkerers will buy this for $600.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @ncryppt 31 May 2023

I think we under estimate how many non-technical people want to run a node / home server.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @kenn_b OP 31 May 2023

maybe, until their first data loss and then they go back to dropbox :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ncryppt 31 May 2023

lmao probably xD

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @kr 30 May 2023

well said

569 sats \ 3 replies \ @nout 30 May 2023

I was actually looking into making similar home media device that's really small and transferable. 600 is not that bad in that respect. The ones that are the most promising are MeLE devices and I was thinking about putting Umbrel OS on there anyway.

Like this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TGN1MWV . But consider you also need to buy 2TB SSD.

246 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hypnagog 30 May 2023

I ran umbrel on a mele quieter 3 ($250) and and extra 1tb ssd. Runs great. Not to bash the initiative, but it needs to have some pretty special hardware to warrant the price.

For example, it could use chips with open source firmware, or guarantee chain of production is outside of china, etc. Bitcoiners would pay more for that I think.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @xanny 30 May 2023

I've used Intel NUC's and currently an Asus Mini PC with an AMD Ryzen, all of them cost just a few hundred dollars including SSD and RAM, and had zero issues running both Umbrel and Start9.

And yes even tried out running Start9 on a Raspberry Pi. No issue there either.

Definitely don't need expensive hardware.

For example, it could use chips with open source firmware, or guarantee chain of production is outside of china, etc. Bitcoiners would pay more for that I think.

This is exactly what they should do, but given Umbrel itself isn't even FOSS, I don't have high hopes they will.

326 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 30 May 2023

I run Odroid HC4 at home, it has two SATA slots, so data can be mirrored, important for Lightning Network. https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc4/

377 sats \ 5 replies \ @kevin 30 May 2023

This is just way too expensive :/

Why would I buy this when I can literally cop a Mac mini for the same price (sure, I'll have to add an SSD, but still)

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @charles 30 May 2023 freebie

Picked up this for $280 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BPXKNYGN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

which runs start9 smoothly

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @kevin 30 May 2023

Had to check out what I could get at a similar price point so here's an alternative with an even more powerful CPU (and GPU!), USB4, etc. for $431: https://www.gmktec.com/products/amd-ryzen™-7-7735hs-mini-pc-nucbox-k2?spm=..product_3221c472-340e-46d5-893a-78ce20a6c2d5.header_1.1&variant=0f35aab5-cca7-45b8-a42f-14b3babd3ab7

add 16gb or 32gb of ram for $50/100: https://www.amazon.com/G-Skill-RipJaws-SO-DIMM-CL34-34-34-76-F5-4800S3434A16GA2-RS/dp/B0B1GMD6SB

SSD for $85: https://www.amazon.com/Silicon-Power-UD90-NVMe-SP02KGBP44UD9005/dp/B0B996CJ64

Total: $566 (or $610 if you go for 32gb)

If you go with the same kind of CPU they use, you get away with just: 148+50+85 = $283

...and you even get an 8gb ram stick and 128gb ssd that you can sell or use for other projects:

https://www.gmktec.com/products/intel-11th-jasper-lake-n5105-mini-pc-windows-11-pro?spm=..product_1d35043f-ca9e-44f0-9735-f8c8c44d17e7.header_1.1

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 31 May 2023

Exactly!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @m00ninite 30 May 2023

Somebody needs to make a solution for people that aren't savvy enough or willing to put in that effort. We have plenty of DIY solutions and very few plug-and-play ones. You may not be the target for this product (neither am I), but people out there need this sort of thing. More nodes on the network is more good!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kevin 31 May 2023

I agree it's good that there are options but the markup is insane. It's a re-branded $150 computer with a cheap SSD and some RAM.

309 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 30 May 2023

Who's the first guinea pig? I would, but my pi4 is still chugging along.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 30 May 2023

I might be! I’m a sucker for new bitcoin hardware!

392 sats \ 1 reply \ @l0k18 30 May 2023

Gonna be a very happy day when we have our thing ready and demanded enough to put on umbrel's repos.

There is a lot of things that centralised systems do that can be done perfectly adequately by a peer to peer network, and actually not a lot that doesn't. Only the gatekeepers profit. I think that there will come a day soon when running nodes is a legit career.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kevin 30 May 2023

Though I think Umbrel is great, the irony of wanting to get your "thing" on a centralised git repo so others can use it is palpable here :D

252 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 30 May 2023

Following in the footsteps of Start 9. Good to see.

310 sats \ 2 replies \ @ssaurel 30 May 2023

This is a good initiative for anyone who can't or doesn't want to build their own server to run their Bitcoin node.

277 sats \ 0 replies \ @bitslinger 30 May 2023

I agree with this. Great way to get people into running their own node.

8 sats \ 0 replies \ @xanny 30 May 2023

Start9 already sell ready-made hardware for people who can't/don't want to setup a server from scratch except their platform is actually FOSS.

277 sats \ 0 replies \ @kale 30 May 2023

mac mini + ssd seems better than it?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @matthewonthemoon 30 May 2023 freebie

Some recent threads comparing StartOS to Umbrel:

Start9's Server One is basically the same device as the Umbrel Home, except $150 cheaper and with free international shipping. You could even buy this and install Umbrel on it if you really wanted (you won't). Start9 also has devices ranging from $199 to $1,637: https://bitcoin-store.start9.com/

It is seamless to migrate from Umbrel to StartOS without having to close your lightning channels: https://youtube.com/watch?v=eyzLHilZyYk

Do your own research.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 30 May 2023

very interesting move, excited to see bitcoin companies embrace hardware manufacturing too

9 sats \ 1 reply \ @random_ 30 May 2023

2012 mac mini, js

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 31 May 2023

This guy gets it… 🥰

330 sats \ 2 replies \ @nerd2ninja 30 May 2023

I mean its pretty easy to create hardware thats better than a pi lol.

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @kenn_b OP 30 May 2023

That is true.

I mean it more from the logistics point of view. Getting the hardware actually made with quality components, dealing with Chinese manufacturers, shipping logistics, etc. etc. It is a whole new ballgame to create hardware and successfully ship and support it in comparison to just writing lines of code and putting it on github :).

I hope it is successful.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 May 2023

I literally did it in a few weeks with minimal budget and sold hardware by hand at bitblockboom.

In developed nations, there are actually things called planes, airports, trucks, and roads, along with shipping companies that specialize in getting an object from A to B so all you have to do is make a monetary payment to one of these to handle the "logistics".

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SovranSystems 30 May 2023

I am glad the sovereign computer moment is growing!!! Hats off to you Umbrel for the nice marketing. In our world over here at Sovran Systems, we use Beelink hardware for our nodes. They work well!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @VEINTIUNO 30 May 2023

Finally, it probably was needed... as RaspB at some stage will be not enough depending on which use you want to do with your node. They partnered with TBM earlier. Now I can see they stopped selling the Machine with Umbrel that was selling for 559$ with 2T SSD

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 30 May 2023

I have a umbrel. It used to be a routing node with many channels but after about 1.5 years of running with minimal issues it started to give me trouble just randomly becoming unresponsive. The only way to get it back was to power cycle it.

I been looking for a replacement for my pi 4 that is more powerful, stable, and trusted to handle routing. I Looked into apple mini, intel nuc, and system 76 meekrat (which I was going to purchase). Even looked at eBay. But after getting the hardware I have to do all the software installation on my own.

But now with this I can just plug and play and continue my umbrel experience. Could I get more with less and spend time setting things up. Sure I can. This pi 4 that is running umbrel now started out as a raspiblitz which I ditched due to the project being too buggy at the time.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @030ff525f8 30 May 2023 freebie

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