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Let's take back Mining!
2587 sats \ 36 comments \ @Hypnagog 24 May 2023 bitcoin
LETS TAKE BACK MINING!
We've gotten used to the idea of mining using bigger and bigger rigs. But this has now reached a point where mining is very centralized, and a point of failure for bitcoin. Why don't we fix this?
Mining used to be done using USB thumbdrives (e.g. Block Erupters) and new projects today like Nerd Miner seek to bring back sovereign BTC mining. What would happen if 200,000 people plugged in an ASIC thumb drive? At the very least it would provide some resiliency in the event the Governments found a way to shut down centralized miners.
Do you know of any good USB plug and play mining solutions? let's update the old thumb drive asics and let's decentralize mining again!
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389 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 24 May 2023
In the monero world there are p2p decentralized mining pools (no central pool operator).
Idk why they aren't widespread in Bitcoin yet - I thought we used shitcoin as a good playing ground to reuse or refuse good/bad ideas. I haven't thought through the incentives and the cryptography yet. Maybe somebody else here has and can illuminate us on the pros and cons
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142 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
We need usb devices on 200,000 computers worldwide, and a decentralized pool ....
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439 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 24 May 2023
It's a nobel idea that will benefit bitcoin. The problem might be convincing people to pay for electricity with little to no financial gain. For the record, I'm in if anyone has any ideas.
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20 sats \ 3 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
The electricity used by one usb device would be negligible to a single user. Multiply that by 200,000 and you have real power. That's decentralization
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 24 May 2023
Very true. I had in mind one of those combo miner/heater things. I like your idea.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
This is the block erupter , not as user friendly and costs 50-100 depending where you buy. But this is Tue basic premise. Plug in and forget, times 200k people.
https://bitcoinmerch.com/products/asic-miner-block-erupter-usb-336mh-s-sapphire-v3-btc-bitcoin-mining-sha256
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 4 Jun 2023
Yes that is. I should have checked the link more closely. Here's the complete discussion: #183297
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @satyagraha 29 May 2023
It's not for gain, it is to sustain, otherwise currency rules instead of the people.
When a pool blocks ordinal "theory" spam, my .2 Thash will be there.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 29 May 2023
Amen. The "we can't get 50% of the hash rate this way so I'm doing nothing " crowd are the reason decentralization struggles. Decentralization works by many people doing small steps. The individual can't see how immediate impact, but he has one.
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334 sats \ 2 replies \ @0245bdaef2 24 May 2023
Check out https://futurebit.io or consider running some old S9s at reduced voltage via braiinsOS.
The second option isn’t as plug and play (nor is it usb) but it’s very expandable and easier to do than most people think.
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71 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
Looks good, thanks for sharing. We do need a plug and play usb device if we want this to grow in adoption. Installing a new os on a device etc is a but more than most may be willing to do.... However any step towards decentralizing mining is a good step!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BBitcoinUSA 24 May 2023
I have wanted one of these for some time, but it is not in the budget yet. I wish they would come out with an inexpensive USB option like the old model they used to have. Question, is the idea that you can use the Apollo / full package option as your main PC / computer for everyday purposes? For work, internet activities, regular stuff? I understand that is not advisable if you are truly concerned about security, probably, etc. but is that the idea?
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207 sats \ 5 replies \ @om 24 May 2023
Governments found a way to shut down centralized miners.
Shut down? No, they will tell them to continue to mine, just not mine on top of blocks that contain transactions that they don't like.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
Okay, either way mining is a centralized weak point , we both agree to that right?
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100 sats \ 3 replies \ @BBitcoinUSA 24 May 2023
Yes, especially considering that many of the publicly traded miners have large minority positions owned by Blackrock, Vanguard, and the like. I thought they were concerned about the environmental impacts of mining 🤔 - I guess they are really more concerned with their level of behind the scenes influence and control …
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
Good point... Its a real concern to me and should be to everyone else too. The only way to preserve btc is to decentralize this function.
Its been done before, no need to reinvent the wheel. Just need to update the usb devices and mass produce. Should be doable for 20-25$.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BBitcoinUSA 24 May 2023
What is the estimated hash rate per USB stick and if 200,000 users started their own pool what would the estimated daily / or monthly sats payout be ?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
I'll have to leave that to the geeks out there... The old hardware (what was used before) did between 336mh/h (block erupter) and 1.6GH/h (antminer U1 or U2).
I'm sure modern devices could improve on those figures.
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1148 sats \ 7 replies \ @PlebeiusG 25 May 2023
What would happen if 200,000 people plugged in an ASIC thumb drive?
Almost nothing. What do you think you’d get out of a thumb drive…? Let’s pretend they ran at 100-400 Gh/s
That’s 0.1-0.4 Th/s * 200,000 participants = 10-80,000 Th/s
Given average S19 is 100 Th/s that’s about 100-800 S19s
If you compare it to global hashrate - that’s almost a rounding error. It’s nothing. Especially if these drives are plugged and unplugged during the day.
I’m all for decentralization - but not thumb drives.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 29 May 2023
And the antminer is old tech. What could you do today if it were modernized ?
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100 sats \ 3 replies \ @PlebeiusG 29 May 2023
I’m confused.
These thumb drives are more hobby devices. They can’t compete. It’s like CPU/GPU mining at this point. It’s a waste of time, capital and energy
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 29 May 2023
The idea of decentralizing mining is for many people to do a little in a way that scales and reinforces the network's resiliency. How many people use bitcoin today? How many would be OK plugging in a usb thumb stick on their lapyop/deaktops? You are saying this is not possible?
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242 sats \ 1 reply \ @PlebeiusG 31 May 2023
For your perspective, if you haven’t run the numbers yet…
Last year one S9 provided 20 millionth of one percent of total network hashrate. A thumb drive will do 1000x less.
You are free to mine however you want.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 4 Jun 2023
How about a thumbdrive times 200,000? Equivalent to 200 S9s using your numbers?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hypnagog OP 29 May 2023
Antminer u1 or u2 runs at 1.6gh/h. Simple thumb drive.
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389 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 31 May 2023
Decentralization needs miners who can put up a decent amount of work
Sure, we can have 100 billion thumb drives mining in order to decentralize… but if they are doing 1% of network hashrate then it’s not doing anything. It’s decentralized in name only.
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203 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
Simple solution: revised block erupter-type usb stick with latest asic tech. Simple heatsink, plug and play software. Plug it in, put your btc address, forget about it and profit!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cristaiji 4 Jun 2023
Great post thanks. 👌🙏
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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @SovranSystems 25 May 2023
Centralized mining is a non-issue, or am I missing something?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 29 May 2023
Mempool is being corrupted, with the help of miners. Serious ?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hypnagog OP 25 May 2023
Sorry just re-read your post. Centralized mining is am issue because it creates a central point of failure/corruption in the btc ecosystem. For example, governments could force them to take certain actions, or they themselves could take certain actions in a biased manner.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SovranSystems 25 May 2023
See my reply above.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hypnagog OP 25 May 2023
Quite the opposite! Its a serious issue for me.... I created this thread as a way to assess what the community felt, and suggested an achievable solution.
If the thread die early, I guess the community either doesnt think its an issue, or doesnt like my proposed solution.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SovranSystems 25 May 2023
This main issue of centralization is power to control from a minority over the majority and as the Bitcoin protocol was discovered by Nakamoto, this is almost non-existent.
Is this thread aware of the power miners do have over the network in terms of "governance"? It is very limited. Understanding the technical details of the Bitcoin Protocol and "governance" or at times consensus models, in which, to move Bitcoin in a certain direction in a centralized manner is null in regards to one "arm" of the Bitcoin network (miners which are in discussion here).
1.) https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/mastering-bitcoin/9781491902639/ch08.html
2.) https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2020/02/20/no-concentration-among-miners-isnt-going-to-break-bitcoin/
3.) https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0001.mediawiki
Also, if you are worried about governments, don't be at all! Free markets and decentralization are the remedy (which Bitcoin is). Second, get out of your mind control in which you believe someone or some organization has rulership over you. Learn how to stand up for yourself against these psychopaths (governments). You rule your life, they don't (unless you sign a contract with them).
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
Nerd miner: diy or buy on ebay. Plug and forget device.
https://github.com/BitMaker-hub/NerdMiner_v2
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Hypnagog OP 24 May 2023
Brief history of USB stick miners: https://99bitcoins.com/the-history-of-usb-bitcoin-miners/
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