I want to open up this debate and see what people think about university education, I'm excited to read your opinion
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I want to open up this debate and see what people think about university education, I'm excited to read your opinion
I taught at both a state school and a very expensive private university for a number of years in the 20-teens and into the 2020s. My experience is that kids are now buying degrees. Different people are paying for them, depending on the kid, but a vast majority of the students could not write to save their lives. I felt like the kids mostly wanted to learn but absolutely had not been equipped for critical thinking. By the end, in my music appreciation courses, I had multiple weeks dedicated solely to learning persuasive writing and how to debate. I got so much out of my college experience (early 2000s, degree in political science), but I'm reluctant to encourage it for my kids today... :/
How much do you think your experience was shaped by your own personality, versus what your peers were doing?
As a teacher, it's easy to get overly discouraged by all the students that aren't equipped with the foundational skills, or don't care about learning. But that doesn't mean the students who actually want to be there and are ready for it, aren't getting a lot out of it.
Oh, I loved the teaching and the students (mostly). It definitely wasn’t their fault that they were ill equipped…but they were, and to a significant degree. What bugged me the most was the fact that they were basically buying a ticket to better paying jobs. I only taught part time, so it didn’t create too much angst in my life. It was a fun thing to teach and then put it away when I actually went to work. But all in all, when it comes to my own kids, I’m pretty skeptical of the state of higher education based on my experience teaching there.
I think more than ever, what you get out of it depends on what you're willing to put into it. You won't get a better opportunity to network with experts at the forefront of their fields than at university.
And to be honest, the bar to engage with them is pretty low. Most profs are so jaded by disengaged students that they're pretty happy to talk to ones that show genuine interest, even the ones who aren't that talented. And talent can be compensated for by training/practice... but passion can't.
I just noticed who I was talking to here. I definitely don’t doubt that’s true in your discipline (Econ, right?), but not in music. I learned pretty quick that many (not all) music profs can’t hang on even entry level gigs.
in Econ and most other fields, professors need to be active and publishing in their fields, which imposes a fairly high level of technical competency (though not necessarily aligned with what the market needs)
Is there no similar requirement for music professors, like that they need to be active in the performing community?
Many perform regularly, including faculty recitals and what-not. What many can't do, is actually hang on a pro gig. Obviously, there's a massive diversity of routes one can take to get paid to perform, and there are a decent amount to music profs who can't really hang in any of them. The typical audience at a faculty recital isn't the demographic that's paying for it, and many music classes force the students to go to them as part of their grade. On one level, that makes sense as you can't learn music if you don't experience it. On another level, it creates a fake sense that these professors have a consenting audience. Don't get me wrong. There are lots of great musicians in academia, but there are plenty of terrible ones as well.
Neither. The sheepskin is increasingly unnecessary, but the experience can be invaluable.
I wouldn't trade my time at engineering school for anything, whether the outcome is a career or not. It made me take charge of my own education, forced me to introspect on where my interests and talents overlap. Just being surrounded by like-minded individuals who want to learn and build was fantastic. Coming out of it with improved time management, leadership, a patent and research experience were bonuses.
I can see the argument that you can get all of the above outside of an academic setting, and honestly, there are so many fantastic resources available now. But at the same time, it takes the right individual and personality to accomplish that on their own and there's something to be said for having skin in the game (committing to a program and paying for it.) I'm a little torn, but I'm still going to be recommending it, not for the sake of the diploma though, and definitely not if it incurs substantial debt.
If the individual is strongly self motivated or highly entrepreneurial, it might be the wrong call (depending on their interests.) But for me it was definitely worth the time and expense.
Great response!!
I met my wife at school. best thing that ever happened to me.
the education was not as useful. university seems good as a way to meet people, but I suspect an enterprising individual could meet people elsewhere and by other means.
I am not sure about that. At university, the faculty are inclined to help you because your success translates to their institutional prestige. You are also surrounded by other bright people who consider you a peer.
Outside of a university setting, you are going to get a lot of "who the heck is this and why should I give them my time?"
The trouble is, most students don't enter into university thinking that that's where the value lies. They think the value is either the diploma itself (perhaps), and the building of skills (also perhaps, but much easily acquired elsewhere). What's really harder to obtain is a setting in which people are willing to listen to and support your ideas.
As long as it opens doors for you.
It could be overrated if you go to university, get tons of debt, get a degree in something you are not interested in, find a job that you have to get because you have a degree in that field and end up just not liking your choices made.
Also it could be overrated if you do all the things above but DONT find any job in your field and have to pay down debt you owe for a pretty piece of paper.
University is necessary for job only because the JD says so.
From the education side, maybe since I didn’t go to an elite university most of my professors were about just spitting out material and not helping us think critically about subjects. Also most of the things learnt in university were not applicable to office work life which required a degree to get the job.
Not saying that it is not necessary because it is needed for higher paying jobs however it’s really overrated because you learn more on the job.
For professions that protect life and safety I think university education is a must.
College weeds out the humans who can’t cut the mustard when a profession relies on critical thinking skills for the betterment of society.
My only concern with constantly demanding higher and higher educational standards for certain professions is that eventually that logic gives rise to:
I think we're seeing elements of this in the US medical profession
Yes, we want standards, but that logic does have its limits...
Yeah I can agree with this for sure
Necessary. Unless you have your heart set on being an entrepreneur
University education is not for everyone, however, early education is, and therefore far more necessary.
The early years are formative, this is the age where the brain is more receptive to learning, absorbs everything like a sponge, and sometimes I feel our education system, in general, doesn't take enough advantage of the opportunity...
I think it’s a matter of perspective; it can be necessary, but it can also be overrated.
It depends on the type of studies you wish to pursue, the country you live in, and, of course—and most importantly—how many resources you have and can allocate to that stage of your life.
Most people in the world believe that studying for a university degree is the solution to their problem of how to earn a living. (This may be true.) However, it can also be a completely misguided approach.
Please say overstated I’m too poor
Overrated, do not recommend