Has being a bitcoiner made you hate governments more ? \ stacker news ~AskSN

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Has being a bitcoiner made you hate governments more ?

965 sats \ 31 comments \ @stack_harder 1 Nov AskSN

In my pre btc days i was never really anti-government. I was never a simp for gov, i was just ambivalent, really. Part of the privilage of being from a country with a strong currency.

But since being in btc and going down the various rabbit holes of ways governments have fucked people out of their freedom and money over and over again, i have gradually grown to hate governments - all of them, some more, some less.

Whether it's the CFA or Zimbabwe's incompetent government, it's all one big trigger. Then when people like Christine Lagarde shit on bitcoin, I find it outrageous.

Btc has been quite radicalising in a way, for me at least. What about you guys?

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112 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 1 Nov

Yes definitely. I always disliked governments but Bitcoin opened me up to a whole new world of hate. Haha

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

Hate makes you blind to the truth. All governments are flawed because they are composed of people. All people are flawed- just like you.

Government is the attempt to make your existence among all the other flawed people viable. Without government you will almost certainly be a lot worse of.

124 sats \ 1 reply \ @rare 1 Nov

Hated it first. Indifferent to it now.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 1 Nov

This is closer to my experience.

Bitcoin was downstream of hating the state for me.

26 sats \ 1 reply \ @hasherstacker 2 Nov

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 19h

Very true. This reminds me of Boris Berzovsky, he was the Russian TV mogul in the 90s and the guy who was part of the team that took Putin from a no-name to president. He is often quoted as saying ' give me a tv remote and in 6 months I can make even a stool president' (it might be a paraphrase, but the version in Russsian attributed to him is Дайте мне пульт от телевизора, и через полгода я сделаю президентом табуретку).

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 1 Nov

I hated governments long before bitcoin existed. Put more accurately I hated the state.

Governance is not what the state is. It does provide inferior governance to voluntary and private governace. The problem with the state is its monopolistic nature. I don't hate it like one would had another person though. That isn't really accurate or healthy.

I view it more as how one thinks about cancer or the devil. In the context of Christianity I think of the state as that which puts itself in the place of God. So in a sense it is anti-Christ. Going all the way back to the towel of Babel through the kings that set themselves up as gods, to the ceasars, to the modern ideas of Democracy.

Bitcoin appeared to me as a tool we can use as part of other things to counter the power of the state. Hating it is of little value. We really need to learn why we should make it obsolete. Like slavery, why it is immoral and should be abolished. Not governance or hierarchy, or order. The state. The state is the problem here not those others.

Bitcoin doesn't make the state disappear but it is a threat to the state power over the people.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby 1 Nov

Yes! I used to read a lot of history and it's hard not to see the common denominator of governments slaughtering the people they are supposed to benefit. Bitcoin just made me more aware of how the incentives produce this result.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 19h

100% - slaughtering, then gaslighting and shafting the majority

53 sats \ 1 reply \ @hasherstacker 1 Nov

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

You are welcome to leave any time you wish.

But you don't because you are a pathetic delusional hypocrit who would not survive a day outside of the wealth and security provided by the state.

If you truly despise government go live in Haiti...or anywhere there is little or no government. But you will not because you are not insane or suicidal.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @88b0c423eb 2 Nov

the government does not exist, only the parasites running it.

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @X3NO533D 1 Nov

100%

Also before, I was still "asking govt to do something", now I think it's peak weakness.

31 sats \ 3 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

Without any government you would be a lot worse of. You cannot refute it.

32 sats \ 2 replies \ @X3NO533D 1 Nov

True.

But you get I meant not asking.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

Yes, I get that in terms of where there are alternatives, like Bitcoin, we can choose to store our savings outside of the government fiat state monopoly...rather than asking/hoping they might reform fiat. In that sense I see Bitcoin as an excellent mechanism that can really pressure governments to change, as it has provided an alternative which creates healthy competitive pressure upon the state fiat monopoly. Often governments do not listen (sometimes because they are owned by bankers and corporates) and so more direct, or indirect actions are justified!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @X3NO533D 20h

Exactly.

I imagine such mean of pressure would only be really effective if enough people do it, yet it is already great if individuals can use it "locally".

Printing money out of nothing will probably always be done and I suppose it's not necessarily bad when there's a real need for it, so it's more about people being aware of what it means, how it impact their life and having the possibility to keep it "checked".

We're still far of a world where Bitcoin changes the power balance globally but it became a goal that gives me hope, which I had not before. That's ok for me at the moment.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @rootmachine 1 Nov

Oh yes. Gradually the hate increases. Whoever says otherwise, lies.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @optimism 1 Nov

Okay. I'll lie by saying there is nothing gradual about being forced to look at governments from the exit side of a barrel their slaves hold.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @rootmachine 1 Nov

I say it's gradual because I am trying to give them time and hope they might change and shift towards people and so on. For this the gradual increase.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

All governments are flawed because they are composed of people. All people are flawed.

Government is the attempt to make our existence among all the other flawed people viable. Without government we will almost certainly be a lot worse of.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic 19h

Yes

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 2 Nov

I don't, because Govs were designed to work the way they do. I can't understand people who still after they discovered Bitcoin trying to play gov's game and saving in dollars or gold.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitByBit21 1 Nov

Yep

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BeeRye 1 Nov

Quite, yes

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fourrules 1 Nov

Hating the government made me a Bitcoiner, and yet... Yes

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

'Whether it's the CFA or Zimbabwe's incompetent government, it's all one big trigger. Then when people like Christine Lagarde shit on bitcoin, I find it outrageous.'

Yes, governments have misused their fiat monopoly power many times. But many Bitcoiners seem to extrapolate that to meaning all governments are bad, always. This is a big leap and a flawed one imo.

Governments do have legitimate roles in our lives and economies- but like us, they are often flawed. The misuse of fiat fiat money by governments is undeniable but it is also much more nuanced than most rabid Libertarians allow or seemingly even understand.

Bitcoin provides a healthy competitive alternative to the states fiat monopoly but it does not remove the importance of government and in particular good government.

It is much easier/lazier to claim that all government is bad than to understand its not that simple.

Without government there cannot be a strong economy and society. Do not believe the Libertarian extremist hype - it is naive simplistic nonsense.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TRUTHSEEKER20 1 Nov

that is quite an interesting take off and what interests me the most is how nations wants to take control of its population more than to give them chances to show off what are they better for. so yeah the short answer is definitley YES. Btc has made me question the way the authorities operates especially from taking people 's finance freedom and deceive them with their printed money. i think what is important is that to own what you have is far crucial than having something you do not own. and Btc has gave us that sense in a way or another and made people more aware of what value is, rather than what money is all about.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

No. I have always been critical of governments and there frequent misuse of power and so when Bitcoin provided an alternative to state imposed fiat monopoly I welcomed it- but the problem remains that government is crucial to strong healthy economies and societies.

You cannot have a strong healthy society without government providing security and law. I find it tragic how Libertarians and Bitcoiners constantly fail to acknowledge the importance of good government...instead writing off all governments as bad.

I have challenged everyone here to debate this issue but most here hide from such a contest of ideas.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 1 Nov

You are a slave.

Read that: https://sotiris.substack.com/p/you-are-a-slave

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1 Nov

Why don't you go live in Haiti then? Very low taxes and almost no government. Nirvana for you surely? Byeeeeeeeeeeeee.