DISCUSS: saying "hold your own keys" is similar to "run your own email server" \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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DISCUSS: saying "hold your own keys" is similar to "run your own email server"

869 sats \ 37 comments \ @Scoresby 9h bitcoin

273 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 9h

It depends how much work we let "similar" do. The analogy is fine, in that most people probably will opt for the lower technical hurdle of outsourcing that function.

I think running your own email server is a much more foreign concept for people. Holding your own keys isn't that different from keeping track of your passwords for other stuff.

272 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 8h

Holding your own keys isn't that different from keeping track of your passwords for other stuff.

Yea it's a bad analogy for L1, email servers are synchronous, requiring some hefty configuration to route messages. Bitcoin is asynchronous and the network relays instead of routes. Apples and oranges.

The analogy of an email server in the context of Lightning is more appropriate, and I use that a lot myself since Lightning is synchronous, there are considerations for routing via the network.

Even a Lightning node though is orders of magnitude simpler than an email server, that's not to say we should expect everyone to run one, but we should expect and strive for Lightning to be orders of magnitude more decentralized and less permissioned than email.

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 7h

Holding your own keys isn't that different from keeping track of your passwords for other stuff.

100%

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 9h

Holding your own keys isn't that different from keeping track of your passwords for other stuff.

Agreed. This makes a lot of sense to me. The main difference though is the "no one is coming to help you" factor of bitcoin keys. People are very used to the process of resetting passwords. It will be hard to get people into the no-recovery mode of Bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 9h

Yeah, I think it will be more about outsourcing risk than outsourcing technical expertise.

227 sats \ 3 replies \ @BITC0IN 7h

Fucking Retard.

103 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 7h

Thanks for saying what I really think, lol.

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 7h

Without disputing your eloquent summary of his take, I'm curious how you respond to the seemingly low interest in actually using bitcoin (by which I mean, holding your own keys). Are we just early? Do you anticipate a significantly greater adoption of self-sovereign bitcoin usage?

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 6h

We are very early. And more than that, people are still too dumb for bitcoin. People are so dumb that will embrace CBDC before bitcoin.

The hard truth: people don't want to be responsible for their own actions. And that's why many are afraid of using Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is forcing them to be responsible,

202 sats \ 1 reply \ @BallLightning 7h

I am periodically telling here that self custody should be made as easy as possible. When I point out some obvious problems with the current solutions, they are often dismissed with "if somebody is not smart enough to do something, they do not deserve bitcoin and they and their children deserve to DIE a horrible death!!!! 1!1!1".

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 7h

I often think about driving cars and how in many places around the world, humans managed to figure out how to use motor vehicles. Similarly, mistakes with cars can have severe consequences (even death!); similarly, there is extensive infrastructure required to make it convenient; similarly, there is some amount of learning that is involved in successfully using a car.

So there is hope that people will both make Bitcoin easier to use and that people will be willing to learn how to use it.

Just sometimes, it seems unlikely.

202 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 7h

And these brave bitcoiners must run their private banks over LN for their families and friends that are not so knowledgeable: https://darth-coin.github.io/merchants/private-banks-over-ln-en.html

Do not be like this dumb guy

102 sats \ 4 replies \ @optimism 8h

In the top reply thread on nitter

Strategy and Tether are the two companies furthest along the path I envision.

If these are good examples, might as well kiss the feet of the Ethereum Foundation and Block One: they sold their shitcoins for bitcoin too.

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @Scoresby OP 7h

I've been thinking about the value proposition of bitcoin a lot lately. To me, there is really only one use for Bitcoin that underpins all the other things we might like about it, and that is censorship resistance.

So then I wonder, in this world that some people like Bitcoin Research are describing, would users of Bitcoin maintain this property? I think the answer is no. But maybe there is a case to be made that I'm wrong there.

102 sats \ 2 replies \ @optimism 7h

I won't argue with you on that, except that there's still OGs that actually held on to much of their coin (not me, I'm a retard compared to those people because I didn't keep a fiat job). If ultimately something needs to give, I'm not entirely sure that its the institutional coercible value that wins, they got in late, relatively. So principled actors may still win in the end, but the printer is a bigger enemy than I'd like.

Bottom line: are you willing to get rekt over principles? Because that's what it comes down to.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 7h

Bottom line: are you willing to get rekt over principles? Because that's what it comes down to.

sadly, my personality tends toward zealotry. It has not produced great results so far.

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 7h

Same. And same, from my perspective. Many of my friends are of the opinion I am living the dream though. lol.

202 sats \ 3 replies \ @88b0c423eb 8h

I run my own email server, what's wrong with that?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby OP 8h

nothing is wrong with it. but I think the fact that many people do not has made it more difficult for people who do. I worry that a similar dynamic would play out in bitcoin.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @88b0c423eb 7h

It's much easier to hold your keys of bitcoin than manage your own mail server. No need to manage DNS and other very annoying things like dealing with ISP, having a fixed DNS, PRT record etc. One can simply setup a umbrel or start 9 node and validate heir own keys with electrs or fulcrum connected to sparrow or electrum. BTW I bake my own bread also lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 7h

bread baking is good. almost as good as eating home-baked bread.

202 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 8h

Sounds like there's a consensus that it's not the same.

121 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 9h

I don't agree with the statement. Holding your own keys is significantly easier than running an email server and keeping it updated. However, a counterpoint is that holding your own keys does put more on the line if you screw things up.

I don't run my own email server. But I've had enough trouble with spam filters wrecking my day when I try to do email through my own domain that I worry a similar dynamic could be created with bitcoin: if we rely on a diversity of service providers to give us bitcoin services and then they get mergered and we only get a few big providers and then things are gated. Also: we live at the mercy of our email providers. If google and microsoft refuse to let your emails reach inboxes, good luck on getting any business done in this world.

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 7h

Running an email server (I do that for many years), is like running a PUBLIC ROUTING LN node. You need some skills if you want to do it properly.

But you can still run a PRIVATE LN node with less skills required and is perfectly fine.

102 sats \ 0 replies \ @000w2 7h

Maybe running your own full node is similar. Keeping a number secret is not anything like an email server.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @stack_harder 7h

i imagine running a lightning node to be more like running an email server and using WOS is like using gmail

holding keys is just like not losing a password

202 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 6h

Except you can reset a password.

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 6h

Can you though? Or can your superior?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 6h

True😀

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder 6h

true, private keys are the final boss of passwords

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BeeRye 1h

I hold my keys no problem and i have no clue how to host my own email server.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake 2h

there is no reason to be upset at this reality

actually, gfy.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 3h

Running a server is significantly harder than writing some words down and keeping it safe. Of course its better to upgrade from there but I bet there are millions of Bitcoin secured this way. It means that it's working too!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 4h

Hold L1 keys with relative ease, grateful to be able to be in direct control of my liquid capital. Thank you Satoshi. IOU fiat bank deposits are more complex, compromised and risky imo.

Self custody is what the protocol was built to enable...other options are not Bitcoin.

ETFs are shitcoin DINO compromising of the protocol...freezing sats out of P2P functionality...hoarding them into corporate banker custody. HWs are a FUD based scam.

Use Proton for email. Hopefully they are not a front/scam?

Coinos for LN convenience. Calculated risk with small sums to support and enable utility and adoption of MoE.

Linux for OS.

Absolute freedom is difficult as humans are social animals and will always naturally form groups/governments for security, economies of scale, power projection and property rights enforcement but the fiat banks have acquired too much power and fiat needs some healthy competition which Bitcoin has, and is providing.

Only acquire Bitcoin if you want to be part of the peaceful and voluntary collective monetary revolution building an alternative to the sly fiat debt slavery bankers cartel who have come to own and direct your government.

Freedom is seldom free of risk...most people will not seek, let alone achieve it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nolem 6h

#1250106

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @035736735e 7h outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.