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The time Pieter Wuille DM'd me

My first interaction on Twitter was with Bitcoin Core developer Pieter Wuille. He DM'd me and asked how my trade was going. I thanked him sincerely for his many contributions to Bitcoin.
It was mindblowing to think that I could have a conversation with such a giant, as if we were on the same playing field. One of the great wonders of the internet.
Sadly, AI slop is making genuine interactions like these less and less common.

Junk food tastes good, slop doesn't

The internet has always been full of garbage and scammers, so what is new about slop?
The conversation around slop reminds me of how people used to talk about junk food in the '90s. Junk food is low value and bad for you, taking room that should go to more nutritious food. Where it differs from slop is that people actually want to eat junk food. Nobody wants to read slop. So why do we have it?
The only people who want slop are the people who post it.

How to make slop

You don't have to do much looking to find services that help you generate slop comments and posts.
Here's a screenshot of one:
Buffer is another company that offers a social media post generator (I know people who use Buffer for their social media scheduling and coordination services, but apparently you can turn it into a full out AI slop firehose.)
They advertise themselves like this:
Stay consistent, creative, and productive with SocialBee's free AI social media post generator. -SocialBee
Generate engaging social posts in just a few clicks for FREE! -RADAAR
Say goodbye to writer’s block and effortlessly generate ideas for your social media captions in just a few clicks. -Buffer
These sound pretty good, so I tried them out:
Use an angry darth vader voice to convince people to pay to post on social media
And this was the output:
Join the Dark Side of Social Media: Let Darth Vader Show...Join the dark side and unleash your potential! Just like Darth Vader commands attention, paying to post on social media give syour content the power it desreves. Don't let your voice be silenced -- invest in your reach! #SocialMediaPower #DarthVader #BoostYourPosts
Yup, that's slop.

Who is using this kind of stuff?

The marketing is clearly aimed at social media manager types who have been tasked with "growing our following" or LinkedIn denizens who are convinced they need a newsletter with lots of content to get their next job.
Slop is a boon to content marketers; slop can easily boost content and engagement numbers because most metrics aren't too sensitive to the quality of the interaction: views, likes, sheer number of posts can look good on a quarterly report. But while social media manager produced slop is annoying, it's not what really gets me. It's pretty easy to tune out. Where it gets more frustrating is the individuals who are producing slop.

The labor theory of value on social media

Haha maybe that’s why it stands out — I tend to think a bit more deeply before replying. I don’t rush my answers because I want them to have substance and meaning. But noted! I’ll work on making it sound a bit more natural. Thanks for the observation
It's frustrating to read slop comments because it feels like they will just keep coming endlessly. Whatever response I write will be greeted with breezy vapid positivity. I want to know that the person I'm talking with online put some effort into their post/comment.
But this is troubling: why should I care how much effort was put into it? A novel written in a few months is not necessarily less interesting than a novel that took an author's whole life. The amount of effort (how would we even measure such a thing?) behind a post is a horrible metric for determining whether something is worth reading.
Let's go back to the junk food analogy: slop is like food that looks good and nutritious, but turns out to be cardboard and sawdust once you start chewing on it -- what's worse: once you take a bite, you can't even spit it back out. You've already wasted your time.
The amount of effort may not be important, but the intellectual payoff I get for doing all that chewing is. Slop is tiring out my jaws.

What to do with the slop poster?

When the medium was expensive, the message was under greater pressure to be valuable -- someone had to take a risk to get the message in front of an audience. Now, very little risk is required.
From public health journals to scifi magazines to crappy ebooks on Amazon, slop posters are flooding every publicly available publishing outlet.
Filters and human moderation can only do so much here. Slop is produced much faster than moderators can review it and filters are too easily gamed -- it's like using a ruler to measure itself. It always ends up being a game of catch-up. There needs to be a cost to post.

Make them pay (to post)

You have to pay to post on Stacker News. Sure, we still see slop here, but my recent adventures in other forums have shown me how bad it can get. It's nothing like that here. But neither do we have moderators who are working to remove it. Paying to post fixes AI slop.
So the real question is: what is stopping the rest of the internet from moving towards pay to post?
Well, when I post on SN, I’m usually pretty darn confident that people will be kind enough to zap my sats back. Even if my post garners zero zaps, it’s still a win for me because 1) posting it has directly or indirectly contributed to me keeping my cowboy hat for one more day (something I really care about haha) n 2) I get to declutter the physical copy of my writing n claw back a bit more control of my space. But I’m not confident that when I pay to post on other forums, people will be obliging enough to help me break even on average haha
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102 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 17h
But this is troubling: why should I care how much effort was put into it? A novel written in a few months is not necessarily less interesting than a novel that took an author's whole life.
Because it's rude to expect me to put more time and effort into reading your post, than you took to make it. There's a minimum expectation on effort from the author. A few months could yeild fantastic results, but could a few weeks? Days? Hours? There's a cut off imo.
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So the real question is: what is stopping the rest of the internet from moving towards pay to post?
  1. Too hard with traditional methods
  2. People like to remain anonymous on the internet so they can be mean without accountability
  3. People are too used to posting being free (being the product)
  4. Probably others
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152 sats \ 3 replies \ @Wumbo 16 Jul
Personally I would put them in this order (most likely to least):
  • People are too used to posting being free (being the product)
  • Probably others - "All My friends use this other service"
  • Too hard with traditional methods
  • People like to remain anonymous on the internet so they can be mean without accountability
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I'd add two more:
  • So much of the internet is built on metrics meant to make you look attractive to advertisers. Most companies will always prioritize the metrics over real engagement, so until the metrics are able to reliably slash AI slop, there's little incentive to do anything about it.
  • Some users may not care if their engagement is coming from AI or real people, as long as they get engagement. I think Zuckerberg said something to this effect... like I can easily see how people get endorphins from AI likes and AI retweets, even if they know it's AI
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I agree with your second point for sure. Slop isn't about the people who read/view it; it's about the people who post it.
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Ah yes, I didn't intend for mine to be in any particular order, just the order that I thought of them.
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  1. People are too used to posting being free (being the product)
💯, I also think we’re at a point where people are the algorithm. Paying to post isn’t cool, and it’s gonna turn a lot of people off. I don’t think companies want that.
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1, Too hard with traditional methods
Yes, but the people are already pretty used to paying for tokens or compute with agents. Why not pay for tokens to post?
  1. People like to remain anonymous on the internet
You can pay to post without giving your identity.
  1. People are too used to posting being free
This is a tough one. I agree that it's one of the main hangups.
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I mean with TradFi, it's hard to pay without KYC. Most people (I think) pay using credit cards, which are inherently KYC.
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Yes, but if there was interest such problems could be solved: gift cards might do it. Also, we all are pretty privacy conscious. I don't think the main chunk of the internet is.
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I think you're probably right about that. I suspect people will be mean even if they've been KYC'd, because the internet still presents a false sense of security because you're behind a screen and not shit-talking someone to their face.
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We have vigilante moderators who downzap slop and keep Gotham safe.
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let's just call 'em vigilantes. nobody likes moderators. (although maybe people like vigilantes even less than moderators)
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I’ve been vigilanteing a lot more than normal lately.
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102 sats \ 7 replies \ @ek 16 Jul
we need more Miss Meadows (on SN)
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somehow I missed that one. maybe people like vigilantes more than I knew.
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123 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 16 Jul
We like vigilantism that we agree with lol
Batman’s one of the most popular characters of all time. What made you think people don’t like vigilantes?
what is stopping the rest of the internet from moving towards pay to post?
I'd speculate that most platforms don't want to be niche, as then they'd have less marks to sell ads to and/or steal data from.
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do you think pay to post will always be niche?
(no hope that the a slop gets so deep, pay to post becomes the default?)
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Yes, because slop is normal.
From where I'm sitting the majority of tweets, fb posts, mass media articles and broadcasts, youtube videos, tiktok shorts, reddit posts... have always been slop, also before autocorrect made Sam rich.
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have always been slop
This resonates. I'm finding it takes me a little longer to identify llm-produced slop than rando-insane-internet person slop. I need to squint more, I guess.
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Does the source matter though? I'm not going to give people medals for writing their own slop.
The benefit of pay-to-post is that it attracts people that don't just post slop, but actually put in some thought and/or work. I'd say it causes selection more than it causes encouragement.
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perhaps this is the point: a pay-to-post forum selects for people who take their time seriously.
convenience and ignorance.
i recently invited a friend and got them to use sn. he said, "but im going to lose money paying to post."
yes, you might. that's the point. people dont shit post, because the incentives discourage it.
the rewards are an important part of this, which, once he understood, made lots of sense.
i realized that theres a lot to explaining this (trust score, zaprank, etc.), and that this may, perhaps, be why SN uptake is slow.
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It's funny how we think of "losing money to pay."
If your friend buys a burger at a restaurant, they don't necessarily feel like they are losing money. Or if they buy a plane ticket to go on vacation. They are getting something for their money.
The same is true for pay to post, but somehow it doesn't feel the same in our minds.
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posting on sn feels more like buying a big mac during monopoly season, doesnt it?
in addition to the 'product,' you stand to gain a reward. your odds might be better than gambling though.
maybe that's whats so addictive about it.
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112 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 16 Jul
I've been making good use of the downzap button as of late. Still see some slip through but I don't think they'll stick around for long.
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I agree with this! Pay to post limits spam and AI slop for sure.
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PTP limits slop, yes, but in practice it still seems too hard to integrate by the masses.
You can't use something like PayPal or a VISA card (traditional payment methods) for these micropayments where you pay maybe 3 cents if you sign up and 3$ if you want to remain anonymous. You'll literally pay more in fees, or deal with inconvenience.
Bitcoin Lightning solves this greatly, since you can make these micropayments with no fees (assuming you do not use a custodial platform that charges its own platform fees)
But. Most don't use LN-BTC yet. Some heard of BTC and only know it as an investment that is "only going to zero", or criminal money. Others don't understand it (or a lack of wanting to understand it).
It's very difficult to integrate something like this with traditional payment methods, which inherently makes it niche. Stacker.news uses LN-BTC for PTP, and just because it uses Bitcoin (albeit Layer 2, which again not many use.) it's automatically niche.
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