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Long before the Blockchain Era, a landmark Scottish lawsuit posed a question that still echoes today: Can money carry memory—or must it forget? In 1748, Hew Crawfurd—a lawyer in Edinburgh—signed and recorded the serial numbers of two £20 notes before mailing them to a merchant in Glasgow. When the letter failed to arrive, Crawfurd notified the bank and publicized the theft. Months later, one note resurfaced at the Royal Bank’s office. In Crawfurd v. The Royal Bank, the Court ruled that if Crawfurd could vindicate the banknote, commerce would cease, since the entire history of every note involved in a transaction would need to be disclosed.
Throughout history, money has taken various forms—from livestock to cowrie shells to precious metals. As Carl Menger explained, in barter systems, certain commodities became media of exchange due to their salability. The quality of money depends on certain characteristics: portability, durability, divisibility, recognizability, scarcity, and the often-overlooked fungibility, which has grown in importance in the digital age.
Fungibility—the property making units of a good interchangeable and indistinguishable—exists on a spectrum. At one end, unique assets such as real estate or paintings are inherently non-fungible. At the other end, gold and silver exhibit perfect fungibility, as they can always be melted, refined, and recast. Fiat currencies fall in the middle: fungible under the law but not objectively, as demonstrated by the ruling in Crawfurd v. The Royal Bank. …
When coins are traceable, fungibility breaks down. As AI advances, mapping transaction networks becomes more precise—and more dangerous. Determining criminality remains at the discretion of individual governments. A tainted coin may have funded a heinous act—or simply belong to a dissident opposing prevailing narratives.
Imagine the following scenario: Gil’s down on his luck and holds a yard sale. Bitcoin advocates from around town buy up his belongings. Unbeknownst to Gil, the stranger who bought his hotplate paid with tainted coins. The next day, Gil sends the proceeds to an exchange, only to have his account frozen and the authorities alerted. At best, Gil is left penniless; at worst, he becomes entangled in a legal nightmare for crimes he didn’t commit. …
As Ludwig von Mises wrote:
It is impossible to grasp the meaning of the idea of sound money if one does not realize that it was devised as an instrument for the protection of civil liberties against despotic inroads on the part of governments.
Transparent blockchains, by their very nature, are incompatible with sound money. Fungibility is fragile and cannot survive without privacy. Digital assets that aren’t private by default become tools of control, putting our freedoms at risk. In a world where traceable digital payments are becoming the norm, private digital cash stands as a vital bulwark against the state.
Whaaat the F*!!! BTC is not fungible or private! This makes all the difference in the world for BTC users and the ever present dangers of CBDC. Everything you buy and sell is traceable if it is on the blockchain!! What happened to privacy? Wasn’t that ever important to you, the BTC user? Is there a good way to make BTC private? Can we bring back both privacy and fungibility to our BTC money? I would certainly like to see it, wouldn’t you?
200 sats \ 15 replies \ @optimism 20h
input \  / output
input ---- output
input /  \ output
Not fungible?
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I would say not!! If you have a BTC and it is on the blockchain, is it exchangeable with any and every other BTC? The answer is no! The government, the exchanges and private parties can deny you the usage of your fungible BTC because you have a tainted coin. By the way, who and what can ever tell you your BTC is tainted? What is tainted? Who determines wheat ”tainted” is? Do you see the problems with fungibility now? Is there a way to anonymize the origin or use of BTC?
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Is there a way to anonymize the origin or use of BTC?
Yes, coinjoin. Currently, self-proclaimed authorities on taint - we call those spooks - are preemptively flagging all coinjoined utxo as suspect. So, I'm mixing everything I get to make the set of coins with mixing in their history as large as I can personally can help. Two things can happen:
  1. The total number of coins that is tradable on centralized exchanges keeps shrinking. This helps NgU.
  2. It becomes unmanageable for them and they have to give in, which means fungibility wins
Either way, bitcoiners win.
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Either way, bitcoiners win.
Only if you can begin using the “tainted” coinjoined coins, which, to my understanding are being blocked from being used. You lose everything else. Do you call that winning?
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122 sats \ 4 replies \ @anon 15h
‘Tainted Bitcoin’ does not exist. It is a 100% complete utter myth. Anyone who says otherwise has not bought/sold bitcoin peer to peer, or used it to buy things (especially with lightning).
Privacy is another issue… and something that Bitcoin can struggle with. But in terms of fungibility all Bitcoin is the same.
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How is that when they can shutdown addresses and stop transactions for those addresses? Each BTC or sat is identified as it is used and put on the blockchain, isn’t it?
10 sats \ 6 replies \ @optimism 19h
You're only being blocked from exchanges and the like. If you hire me, feel free to pay me with tainted coin, because the taint is BS.
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I think the taint is BS, too. However, when they are blocking and freezing ”tainted” accounts, the BTC cannot be moved around. In other words, the exchanges are working as arms of the state! Now, to find a way to get amounts of BTC off of the exchanges and in circulation anonymously.
That's kind of silly. Just because you can see which addresses were involved in a transaction doesn't mean you can see who controls those wallets. Also, the lightning network is not nearly so transparent.
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Aren’t the exchanges, credit companies and bank requiring Know Your Customer rules to do business? You don’t think that they are cross-referencing all of this information with the blockchain in their databases? I think that they know exactly who owns all the BTC but may not give a hot damn for the small accounts, until tax time.
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Different issues. No one on a bitcoin standard needs to interact with a bank or exchange. There are non-KYC ways to acquire bitcoin, but they're not as approachable. Also, you could just immediately use your on-chain bitcoin to make lightning channels.
I don't think anyone's keeping track of all this stuff at all. I think most of the people who have any clue how to keep track of it are on our side.
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I don't think anyone's keeping track of all this stuff at all. I think most of the people who have any clue how to keep track of it are on our side.
Let me supply some evidence that they may be able to track BTC due to the blockchain. Didn’t they track down all of Ross Ulbricht‘s BTC and confiscate it all in one fell swope? They also got a lot of other Silk Road BTC, as I understand it. They managed to do that years ago, too.
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That was before lightning and who knows how many other advances in opsec.
The blockchain is visible only in that it shows which addresses were involved in on-chain transactions. Addresses with unknown owners provide relatively little information and people now generate new addresses frequently. Plus, transactions on lightning are very difficult to trace, enough so that @supertestnet has offered bounties for anyone who could trace lightning transactions created by him.
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Yes, but have there been coinciding advances in unraveling all of the opsec in the same period? Keeping privacy is getting more and more difficult every passing moment.
10 sats \ 3 replies \ @Akg10s3 21h
I don't agree... Without blockchain, Bitcoin would become just another asset! Just a run-of-the-mill asset...
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Whether you agree or not, you have lost your privacy and the privacy of your money. And, as it stands, with the blockchain, you have to wear the collar of the blockchain whenever you use bitcoin. BTC is not even a run-of-the-mill asset because you have absolutely no privacy when everybody and their brother can see how much you used and who the person you gave it to is. Not a great deal, is that?
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 15h
Transacting onchain requires some knowledge. Spending with lightning gives us pretty good privacy without havibg to learn too much.
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That is my usual way of transacting, but I am still unconfident when doing it. Probably due to lack of experience and knowledge. After all, noobies will noobie.
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @nerd2ninja 15h
Lightning network.
I only know who zaps me on nostr because people post to nostr that they zapped me.
I outright don't know who zaps me on SN (except if it's some specific amount thats unique to them) and SN only can figure out who is zapping whom based on the IP of the person visiting and the invoice it gave them, but visit SN via tor and its hard to say SN knows much at all.
With that all said, we can zap each other directly and who's to say we had a transaction at all? Later when we close channels people can say something happened at some point but exactly what remains unknown to people who have no need to know.
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I also use temp LN to move sats. It strikes me as somewhat secure.
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