Is it too early to get paid in Bitcoin? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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901 sats \ 35 comments \ @klk 24 Jun bitcoin

Because number go up so fast, not many people denominate their liabilities in Bitcoin. Or are even interested in using it as a medium of exchange even if the contract is denominated in fiat if they don't have a positive cash flow of it.

Looks like the natural option is to look for Bitcoin native companies. But there aren't many yet.

So as a software engineer, looks like I'm better off keeping my regular fiat job and keep turning the salary into Bitcoin later.

But it's interesting, because Bitcoin employers would automatically benefit from more than a 50% discount on the regular hourly rate, that's currently the cut that my pimp takes.

So maybe the question is: are there enough Bitcoin jobs already or does that come later? Feel free to share your experiences.

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292 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 24 Jun

I think adoption for small retail transactions like coffee are gonna need to be a lot more common before wages start getting denominated in bitcoin.

One cool aspect of being a SN contributer though is that you can legitimately say you get "paid in bitcoin". That's kinda cool, even if you're not making your entire living off it.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

Yes that's great. It's one step closer.

172 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 24 Jun

Because number go up so fast, not many people denominate their liabilities in Bitcoin

I'm still waiting on the final payment of a 2022 BTC denominated large contract that finished late 2024. I did receive 3 milestone payments. When I asked for my money the answer was "let us get a loan" and then I was ignored - since over 5 months now. I'm probably not going to get it... hate to write off large amounts of money.

Other (smaller) contracts denominated in BTC went much better. So it's possible, but I'd recommend against large projects that take long, unless you have good relations. Even then, make sure you get paid more frequently than you would in fiat.

5 sats \ 5 replies \ @3a42879d5f 21h

When I still had a job, I was getting paid in Bitcoin and my employer had no idea it was happening. To them, it just looked like direct deposit into a bank account, but that bank account was Bitwage. I set it up to pay me out 50% USD, 50% BTC. Bitcoin native jobs don't really matter with a system like this. If you're a worker and you want it, you just set it up and you got it.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @klk OP 15h

For that I'd rather just get fiat and exchange it into Bitcoin in a P2P no KYC way.

What I'm looking for is to not being a slave.

132 sats \ 3 replies \ @aljaz 13h

then don't get a job. build a business. Sell your services.

You don't get to "not be a slave" by asking to be handed things like "heres your off the books bitcoin" without providing enough value for someone to actually be willing to deal with that.

And realize that theres no such thing as a bitcoin company.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @klk OP 13h

Fair point. Already on it.

96 sats \ 1 reply \ @aljaz 13h

and maybe refine your questions because you're mixing up many different things into a same bag of shit.

a registered, state approved entity can pay you with founders cum and would still legally need to pay taxes on that and account for it so theres no magical 50% savings for them if they want to be obedient citizens and comply with the law

your drug dealer can pay you in cash, raw milk or whatever you negotiate because his income is strictly off the books so he's not really worried about the state of assets and liabilities in the end of the year financial report.

neither case has anything at all to do with bitcoin because bitcoin is just a tool, not the fundamentally different reality that changes everything about how businesses operate.

obviously there is wiggle room, there are lots of cash businesses out there that might forget to invoice some of the income and pay people off the books etc. Bitcoin is arguably a very bad choice for off the book payments because the payment will forever be in the ledger so if at any point in time someone (like the tax man) digs up enough information tying the addresses to the person/entity they can have a hard time explaining things. cash in hand leaves a lot less traces and doesn't tie you together forever.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @klk OP 12h

I see. But the cool thing about Bitcoin for this use case is that it's the online equivalent of cash.

What would be great to find is the “online drug dealer” that has some income in online cash (Bitcoin) and is willing to externalize some services.

That's why I think Bitcoin and “off the books” employment (from unregistered entities) are tightly connected in this case.

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212 sats \ 7 replies \ @k00b 24 Jun

afaik there aren't many. i'd love to do it, but i haven't found a single service that makes it easy for me to deal with all the legal bullshit and pay out bitcoin to employees as a us based employer. in contrast, there are tons of fiat platforms to do it.

bitwage claimed to do what we needed, then when I went through tons of pain setting up an account they ghosted us and said they decided to not do what we needed.

so we're not even at the stage of 'does an employer want to do this'. we are still at the stage of 'does my employer want a part time job figuring out how to pay me in bitcoin' and the answer 99% of the time is no.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

I wonder why did you go the “legal” way to begin with. Wouldn't it be a lot cooler if you didn't? And you wouldn't have a lot of headaches, at least the bureaucracy related ones.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b 24 Jun

you have to pick your battles. it's not like i'm running a landscaping company.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @supratic 24 Jun

especially with investors... do they require dividends in fiat or sats?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 24 Jun

startup investors receive equity without the expectation of dividends

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

IDK looks just easier to not register as a company. I can't even imagine how a tax inspection looks like for such a complex platform (LN routing fees, rewards pool, zaps, territories, ...). So I'm probably missing something. Is it just to have a way to justify your personal income to the IRS?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 24 Jun

how do you sell equity to investors without a legal entity? how do you shelter your personal assets from frivolous lawsuits? those are the two primary reasons why people form companies.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

I see... Maybe this is an important line of work for hyperbitcoinization. There should be a better way to have shared ownership over a company. And your personal assets should be out of the map to begin with, probably even your real name to protect them.

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79 sats \ 7 replies \ @supratic 24 Jun

True bitcoin businesses, driven by bitcoin ethos and values aren't registered entities, don't need permissions or licenses to operate, nor know what fiat is. They operate privately, not publicly... g'luck finding them, because if you still having your slave fiat salary, you'll need luck.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

Sure, that's exactly what I'm looking for. But what you say makes no sense.

Those companies need to find their customers somewhere and have presence on the internet. But looks like they are too few and not large enough.

For example there's Bisq offering full time jobs. That's ideal.

100 sats \ 5 replies \ @supratic 24 Jun

Everything works at scale, no need to be exponential or advertise like fiat companies do

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

Still, I think there are too few yet. There are more people looking for a Bitcoin job for half of their current salary than Bitcoin job vacancies.

This is interesting in itself and I wonder how do we break the loop.

85 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 24 Jun

As a software engineer, the best way is to either build something useful that businesses need, or contribute to existing software if you're looking to network. Having something to show is important if you don't have the network.

There are plenty people here on SN (and including SN itself) that have projects that can use love, and will pay you a bounty if you do a meaningful contribution. This is a great way to start.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @supratic 24 Jun

bitcoin has no space for slaves looking for jobs

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @klk OP 24 Jun

It was enough having ONE DarthCoin...

I guess you magically changed from NPC to full sovereign overnight. Or was there a period where you explored and learned from others? Where you looked for opportunities to improve and become more sovereign?

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28 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 24 Jun

This. The first Bitcoin startup I worked with (long ago) had zero funding, zero marketing budget, zero social media presence. But: tens in the first 3 months then hundreds after a year of b2b customers: all from organic search results and word of mouth.

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoiner1 13h

If you are a freelancer it's easier to get paid in BTC than if you're an employee.

As a freelancer, you can give options for payment method to your customers.

For example, a few years ago I was working in a not BTC/ tech sector and only about 2% of the clients used BTC as a payment method.

For sure, if your work is related to BTC this % will be higher.

82 sats \ 0 replies \ @PictureRoom 20h

I have a side business where I only accept bitcoin payments. It's been great and I think it helps spread adoption that way. If people want to buy my product, they have to pay in bitcoin. That gets them intrigued and I think it just snowballs from there.

73 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 21h

Because number go up so fast, not many people denominate their liabilities in Bitcoin

The beauty of Bitcoin, is that anyone can use it anywhere at anytime. If we could only switch our mind from fiat dominated unit of account to sats. So, it's never too early, it's never too late.

82 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 22h

I think about this a lot, because I hope to convince someone to pay me in bitcoin at some point.

For the employer, agreeing to a fixed salary like 1 BTC per year, say, is obviously an insane liability to take on. So, that means the fixed component would necessarily have to be lower and the remainder based on incentives or revenue sharing or something like that (e.g. 0.5 BTC per year + 1% of company profits), but now the employee is taking on lots of volatility risk.

Maybe we'll see hybrid contracts, with a defined fiat component and a defined bitcoin component: i.e. 0.1 BTC and $100k per year. As fiat depreciates and bitcoin appreciates this converts from a primarily fiat contract to a primarily bitcoin contract and both sides are insulated a little bit.

68 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 22h

currently the cut that my pimp takes.

oh man, I FEEEL YAH <3.

We do hate those pimps

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @OriginalSize 9h

Just like with mining I've always said that if your goal is to acquire coins it's best to make money the best way you know how and then buy the coins. People often confuse income and investment to their own detriment. By buying (or selling if you're in that position) you're helping create liquidity which is ultimately the most helpful thing you can do for a new money.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @klk OP 9h

For remote workers, Bitcoins opens the possibility of getting paid in “off the books” digital cash. Which changes things a bit. Opening the opportunity for looking for worse paid but tax free jobs.

35 sats \ 0 replies \ @OriginalSize 37m

I think the problem with this, moral stances on taxation aside, is that kind of arrangement is illegal. That also means risk grows as you get into material amounts of money/work. I'd venture to say that strong motivation either as buyer or seller of said services makes dealing with the taxes and paperwork worth it again if you want to do much volume. For example in order to live well in a western society that's virtually impossible to do under the table. That's why though I appreciate and sympathize with the desire to ramp up the circular Bitcoin economy I think the ultimate is to stack as much as you can and then store them securely against all comers.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @AST_YuZuu 15h

Btc its the future but some persons still like credit cards with $

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 22h

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