This is specifically using random picks from the BIP 39 word list. And there's a spanish version as well. If you're just picking random words from your head, it's likely very poor entropy.

But as anon posted above, I made a mistake in assuming that the BIP 39 seed phrase and the EFF long word list are the same. Actually the EFF long word list is about 3 times as long as the BIP 39 word list, and so the entropy is much higher with the EFF long word list.

I still think the BIP 39 word list is better because it's much more common and familiar. But, I'll definitely need to review the entropy numbers carefully before I include this as an exercise in my book MORE Bitcoin Hands-On.

Ah, thanks very much for that clarification. That definitely makes a difference.

I seem to remember some website where there was a table of how much security X bits of entropy gave you. Do you happen to know a good one?

For instance, a 6 word BIP 39 seed phrase gives you X bits of entropy and it would take a supercomputer X amount of time to crack. A 12 word BIP 39 seed phrase would give you Y bits of entropy, and would take X amount of time to crack.

The whole point is that the seed phrase provides ZERO entropy. Those phrases (all the no entropy ones, like "action" repeated 12 times) are constantly scanned, and if anyone were to put bitcoin onto one of the addresses linked to the private key associated with that seed phrase, it would immediately be swept away.

You can actually restore that seed phrase into Sparrow, just for fun, and see all the transaction on it. I guess people accidentally (?) send sats to an address associated with that key. And...immediately it's swept away.

However, with the seed phrase AND the passphrase, you have a different private key. And that private key will have much better entropy. Not as good as 12 words, but good enough for a lot of purposes.

What do you do - stamp words, or scratch them in?

I haven't looked into Trezor Bitcoin Only. I would still trust SeedSigner more.

They have a very active and helpful telegram channel - https://t.me/joinchat/GHNuc_nhNQjLPWsS

There's a lot of manufacturer propaganda about needing hardware wallets. But I think there's some significant attack vectors with them.

I'd say that you're more likely to have a problem when the entire customer database of your hardware wallet manufacturer gets hacked and put up for sale. Like Ledger has, for instance.

Compared to that, a knowledgeable person with your electrum/TailsOS setup is likely better off.

If you really want one, check out Seedsigner.com.

Is it because the sellers are more worried now about chargebacks? I hear that's a problem.

Yes. This is from the above post:

CURRENT TERMINOLOGY - BAD Custodial - somebody else has custody of your wallet. "Not your keys, not your coins". Non-Custodial - you have custody of your own wallet, i.e. self-custody

IMPROVED TERMINOLOGY - GOOD Self Custody - you have custody of your bitcoin yourself Delegated Custody - you have delegated custody of your bitcoin to someone else

The only problem..."delegated" has 4 syllables. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

Maybe "Entrusted" custody? "Assigned" custody?

Yes, I definitely need to have some more links in there. Especially the cover needs to be there, that would make it look more professional.

Yeah, I did put it up here - https://bitcoinhandson.github.io/BitcoinHandsOn/.

Even if you open source it, though, unless you're a big name, it doesn't seem to get noticed.

I'm still selling the paperback, ebook, and just uploaded the audiobook version on Amazon.

Thanks! I'm trying to figure out how to market it. I'd sure appreciate any ideas.

You could also check out my book Bitcoin, Hands-On: 28 “learn-by-doing” exercises to master the basics of managing your own Bitcoin, including wallets, transactions, and self custody. (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F4SZSCH8).

Here's the table of contents. You get lots of practice with real bitcoin and real transactions, and can do all of the exercises with less than $25 worth of bitcoin (and most of it will be left when you're done, depending on the bitcoin fees rates.)

Introduction 1 Exercise 1: Install Sparrow Bitcoin Wallet 5 Exercise 2: Create Alice wallet in Sparrow 9 Exercise 3: Buy Bitcoin 13 Exercise 4: Receive bitcoin into your Alice wallet 17 Exercise 5: Recover your Alice wallet 22 Exercise 6: Create wallet Bob 24 Exercise 7: Your first send—transfer bitcoin from Alice to Bob 26 Exercise 8: Review the Alice to Bob transaction 29 Exercise 9: Explore the Settings window of the Alice wallet 32 Exercise 10: Create watch only wallet based on Alice 35 Exercise 11: Explore the Alice Watch Only wallet 37 Exercise 12: Receive bitcoin via a watch only wallet 39 Exercise 13: Use the Alice Watch Only wallet to send a transaction 41 Exercise 14: Create wallet Bob Legacy Script Type 43 Exercise 15: Create wallet Alice With Passphrase 46 Exercise 16: Review some transactions 49 Exercise 17: Send bitcoin from Alice to Bob—review fees 53 Exercise 18: Bitcoin fees—what you pay, and why 56 Exercise 19: Install Blue Wallet and create the Carol wallet 60 Exercise 20: Send bitcoin from Bob in Sparrow to Carol in Blue Wallet 63 Exercise 21: Send bitcoin from your exchange to Blue Wallet Carol 65 Exercise 22: Import the Alice wallet to Blue Wallet via the public key 67 Exercise 23: Import the Alice wallet to Blue Wallet via the descriptor 69 Exercise 24: Set up password protection on Blue Wallet 71 Exercise 25: Recover the Bob wallet in Blue Wallet 73 Exercise 26: Send all bitcoin from the Bob Recovery wallet in Blue Wallet to Alice in Sparrow 76 Exercise 27: Bonus—use Blockstream wallet 78 Exercise 28: Clearing practice wallets and creating a long-term wallet 80 Hardware wallets 82 The Lightning Network 85 Final notes and next steps 87 Resources 94

Yeah, I tried posting on the Bitcoin_Beginners subreddit because there were some questions there that my Bitcoin Hands On book would have been so appropriate for.

But no luck. I didn't get banned and I was "allowed" to post, BUT my posts weren't visible to anyone.

I haven't put the time into trying to figure out how to actually make posting on Reddit work, but it's frustrating.

I agree on this. Just wondering if something LESS complex than multisig can be a step between single sig and multisig, specifically for individual users.

So, is that like having a 24 word seed phrase, then you split it into 3 parts - one with say the first 8 and the last 8, the other with the middle 8 and the last 8, and the third with the first and middle 8, that type of thing?

(never mind, I did a little research on Shamir's Secret Sharing. seems very different).

Here's my thoughts on it:

I'm not saying that splitting your seed, or doing a seed phrase/pass phrase as written up above is THE BEST security, better than multisig.

But, it really does seem that it might be a good step, between single sig and multisig.

I'm definitely interested in people's feedback, though. Maybe check out the video from above, see what you think.

I think people may be overestimating how simple multisig is.

Multisig is definitely the solution everyone points to, and I know it's a good solution in many cases.

But I'd love to hear some more about how exactly something that is a WHOLE LOT more simple and accessible to people (the first 2 options I list, geographically splitting either a 24 word seed phrase, or a seed phrase/passphrase), is such a bad idea, if you want to upgrade from standard single sig. I don't understand what's wrong with it, if you have some redundancy.

Also here's an interesting video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAg5h4Lf2o - it's an interview with Peter Kroll, inventor of the paper wallet. He has a new setup now, that he's teaching, with 4 levels. level 1 - custodial lighting wallet level 2 - self custody bitcoin, in something like blue wallet, on phone, and steel seed phrase backup somewhere in house level 3 - new phone, always cold, no sim card, no email except decoy always turned off for cold storage with blue wallet , hide cold phone in home, also steel seed phrase backup at home level 4 - 2 of 2 multisig in Blue Wallet. Get another phone, same setup. Both phones have to authorize in order to sign. This phone, with steel backup, is given to family member. Another backup of seed B is in bank safety deposit box.

He's also not a fan of hardware wallets.